#168411  by Jaybern
 Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:11 pm
Found that my proton 3 leaf Audio. Or QTron worked best with a boost before it. Ie. Klon or Klon clone, katana , etc, Vertex boost. Even can stack another distortion in front. Small gigs I use a V Twin from boogie. It’s soft a creamy.
My wha and volume pedal our after but before my other digital modulation.( delay, octaver, chorus, mxr, actually have a buffer there too)
Seems the envelope filters for me need a smack. To quack. So I give it that boost
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 #168416  by LazyLightning72
 Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:39 pm
lbpesq wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:13 am
An attenuator allows you to crank a tube amp and potentially achieve overdriven tube distortion both in your preamp and power amp sections while still taming the overall volume.

A volume pedal placed after your guitar and before the amp will do nothing to overdrive tubes and, in fact, is arguably redundant with the OBEL.

A volume pedal placed in the effects loop (assuming your amp has one) will allow you to overdrive the preamp section while reducing the volume going to the power amp section. You may be able to achieve the tone you are chasing in this manner, and you may not - it is matter of personal taste.

I would definitely try the volume pedal in the effects loop first as volume pedals are far less expensive than a quality attenuator.

Bill, tgo
Bill,
Not to achieve what I was asking in regards to volume pedals working similar to an attenuator.

But a completely different question about volume pedals,
Would a volume pedal at least allow me to turn my guitar volume all the way up, then use the pedal to control how loud the speaker is?

I’m still working out which pedals work better in which order. So far I think I have mine where they need to be, the MXR Dist+ being the exception.

Currently I’m running my pedals with the OBEL. The order I’m using right now is:
Tuner/QTron+/MXR Dist+/MXR Carbon Copy Analog Mini/ Boss RC-1 Loop Station. If the volume pedal will allow me to keep the guitar at max volume, where in the chain should it go. To me last would seem correct, but I’m not 100% sure of that.

Any recommendations, on which volume pedal is best. Hopefully without breaking the bank, lol!

Thanks!
 #168417  by Jon S.
 Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:55 pm
If you're using an OBEL, your guitar's volume control is already post-effects so don't waste your money on a volume pedal (unless perhaps you plan to try it in your amp's effect loop, i.e., post-preamp, but you just bought a DR, right, so you don't have an effects loop).
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 #168419  by Jon S.
 Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:04 pm
Upon further thought, as you're using your DR primarily as a clean "pedal platform," I'm not even seeing your problem. Can't you simply adjust your amp's volume (together with your guitar's)? I wouldn't even bring up considering an attenuator - it's not like your goal is getting power tube distortion out of your DR at low volumes given the music you're playing. So I guess my advice is to enjoy the excellent gear you now have. :-) But if I'm missing something, by all means, please let me know.
 #168420  by NeilG1
 Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:31 pm
I'm a bit confused by your question. With OBEL, your guitar volume is equivalent to a volume pedal at the end of your pedal chain. You can set your pedals how you want them, and then have full use of your guitar volume knob without effecting pedal tone. So set your amp where you want it - maybe just south of breakup, for instance, then modulate your actual volume using your guitar volume knob. This, in essence, is the entire purpose of OBEL.
I can't figure out what the volume pedal would add for you. But I'm not the most experienced person here....
 #168421  by LazyLightning72
 Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:12 pm
I wasn’t thinking about it like that, this whole OBEL thing is completely new to me.

I have been running my Deluxe around 4 and using my guitars volume to turn up or down when needed. This is of course when playing with my Wolf. The ‘60s CV, I hook up slightly different, though currently it’s not getting a lot of play time. For obvious reasons, lol!

I think I need to experiment more!

Edit:
I meant to mention, there is a sharp drop in volume using the guitar volume control. It has a nice smooth decrees at first, then suddenly falls out. ( My ‘60s CV does this as well ) This was one of the things I was trying to change running into. That’s why I asked about using the volume pedal with the guitar at max. Sorry I didn’t explain myself on that one at all.
Last edited by LazyLightning72 on Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 #168422  by NeilG1
 Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:29 pm
Great explanation of OBEL here from Brian White:
https://iocustomguitars.com/obel-explained


You'll notice it's benefit most with your envelope filter - this is so sensitive to the volume it's being fed. So the pedals always see the direct output from your pickups. This signal goes back to your guitar, and to your volume pot. So you control the volume at this point. People who want to achieve this, but don't have/want OBEL use a volume pedal at the end of the chain - feed max volume on the dial to the pedals, then modulate post-effects with the volume pedal.
So unless there's a different use for a volume pedal, it's fairly redundant if you have OBEL. And with OBEL, you'll find your guitar volume knob useful at all positions on the dial.
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 #168423  by lbpesq
 Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:47 am
Like the above note, a volume pedal at the end of the chain, with the guitar volume turned to “10”, accomplishes the same thing as the OBEL. Being as I prefer to play wireless, I had my custom Alembic Further built without the stock OBEL and use the volume pedal at the end method. In either method, the pedals consistently see the same output from the guitar.

Answering your question about which volume pedal, you can’t go wrong with the good old Ernie Ball. Do a little research as they make different models for active and passive instruments. When I want to travel light, I use a Dunlop mini volume pedal.

Bill, tgo
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 #168431  by Jon S.
 Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:22 am
lbpesq wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:47 am
Bill, tgo
I've been wondering for a while now - what is "tgo?"

I thought at first perhaps "The Great One," but Wayne Gretsky's already got that covered.

The Free Dictionary lists:

TGO Thermally Grown Oxide (materials science)
TGO The Great Outdoors (various companies)
TGO Togo (ISO Country code)
TGO Triple Gate Oxide
TGO The Great One (Wayne Gretzky)
TGO Tarifverbund Ortenau GmbH (German)
TGO Terminal Guidance Operations
TGO Total Gross Output
TGO Toxic Gas Ordinance
TGO Tennessee Gun Owners (forum; est. 2007)
TGO The Guilty Ones (Spring Awakening fan club)
TGO Tribal Gaming Operations
TGO Task Group Orestes
TGO Task Goal Objective
TGO Targeted Growth Opportunity

https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/TGO
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 #168433  by lbpesq
 Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:01 am
It comes from about 15 years ago or so when I first joined the Alembic forum. There already was a “Bill” and there was a “Paul, tbo” (Paul, the bad one). I adapted it to “Bill, tgo” for Bill, the guitar one. However, having just spent four days driving cross country eating crap food, I like a couple of your guesses put together: “toxic gas output”.

hehehehe

Bill, tgo
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 #168434  by LazyLightning72
 Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:45 pm
When I first got this Wolf, I made an adjustment to the Transwarp Pre-amp gain. Perhaps I turned it down a bit too much. I’m going to tweak it some tonight and see if it helps, with the “drop out” I get around 2 or 3 on the volume knob. It’s not marked so I’m just guessing.

I’ll let you guys know how it turns out.

Have a great weekend folks!
 #168467  by cyrusj83
 Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:12 pm
Hey there. I'm new to the OBEL thing too but the way I've been able to conceptualize it best is to think of every pedal within the loop being part of the guts of the guitar. Before I got the OBEL, I had my pedal board with a volume pedal at the end to sorta simulate it (no onboard preamp though). So I'd keep the Strat volume at 10 all the time and go out to the board and then to the volume pedal. Then I got a used guitar and modded it with an OBEL and the spud buffer.

Before OBEL (volume pedal era): The guts of the guitar were just whatever stock guitar I had, and the next stage of the sound was the pedal board on the floor which was a separate entity from the guts.

With OBEL: The guts of the guitar are split open and spilled out onto the pedal board, so every single pedal in my loop chain (all but tuner and delay) was an external representation of the effects "in" my guitar, and then the volume knob just changes the volume of the guts like any other stock guitar.

So, for me, right now, the order is
PU's > Tone Pots > Five-Way Swtich>
TPC-1 Buffer > OBEL On/Off Switch >
OBEL Out > Box send>
Boost (always on -- I think it's a Blaxx boost -- whatever they had at my local store)
MuTron Micro-Tron IV (red Opto-mod)
Boss Super Octave
Keely Katana
MXR Dist+
MXR Phase 100>
Box return > OBEL In > Volume knob > Guitar out>
Box amp out>
Tuner>
MXR Carbon Copy Delay>
Fender Twin

I don't know the science behind it but for some reason when the Carbon Copy was inside the loop, there was a weird volume boost when I turned it on. I put it outside of the loop and it's been great ever since.

Hopefully this helps in some way!
LazyLightning72 liked this
 #168469  by LazyLightning72
 Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:04 pm
I’ll try a test tonight, get the volume where I want it, with the Carbon Copy. Then completely take it out of the chain, and see if there is a noticeable difference in volume level.

I need to pop the back off of my Wolf also, to make a small adjustment to the Transwarp pre-amp gain.

Also, welcome to the forums!
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