[FranklinsTower]

I am beginning keyboard bassist-- have been using a Korg M50 for a couple few years and now want more authentic sound. I recently ordered a Vintage Vibes bass piano which is a new hand made copy of the old Rhodes bass but with a few more keys.

I am wanting suggestions for effects pedals, amps and speakers ets that could not try to emulate Lesh sound (impossible for a Rhodes) but that could add that otherworldly muted sound that lesh gets out of his rig. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Rusty the Scoob]

Huh! That's a new one.

If anything I think a Rhodes Bass tone would be too fat and roundy, and you'd want a way to add a brighter pick-like attack. And of course getting close to his phrasing and style will be the most important.

Maybe send some sound clips of the initial sound and we can come up with some ideas from there.

[FranklinsTower]

Huh! That's a new one.

If anything I think a Rhodes Bass tone would be too fat and roundy, and you'd want a way to add a brighter pick-like attack. And of course getting close to his phrasing and style will be the most important.

Maybe send some sound clips of the initial sound and we can come up with some ideas from there.

Here is a clip with the exact bass piano I am getting-- its in the mix with other instruments but it should give you the idea. You mentioned bright pick like attack and it made me think that Phil bass seems to have a bright tone as well but I may be using the wrong terminology. Other than peddals of which there are so many good ones these days I was thinking I could have it fit with velocity receptors and make it MIDI and then I could process that tone through a Moog modular synth or something like that. That is the high end option and would obviously give me a lot more sound options off of the one keyboard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHakoqXYIsk

[brbadg]

Well Phil rarely plays below the D anymore,so if anything you need to get into the next octave up more.I know you're speaking about tone,but that's part of it.
.How about some eq to bring some of the attack when you're touching the keys? That might help bring more treble in.

[FranklinsTower]

Well Phil rarely plays below the D anymore,so if anything you need to get into the next octave up more.I know you're speaking about tone,but that's part of it.
.How about some eq to bring some of the attack when you're touching the keys? That might help bring more treble in.

Are you talking about an external eq like a pedal or something? I have on order an electroharmonix bass mini synthesizer that I am going to try with the keyboard I am using now. It has a filter section that I think can increase and lessen the attack. Supposedly it tracks really well (should be good for single note bass anyway) and it even has an octave up dial for adding some treble-- its synth treble but it is analogue synth treble and I was thinking it might be good if it were just added in very subtly.

I've noticed that about Phils bass and I also seem to gravitate towards playing bass but a little higher than you usually hear.

[FranklinsTower]

bump for Rusty the Scoob-- hoping you have some suggestions for me sometime. No hurry and would be grateful.

One option I am considering (very pricey) is to have the bass fit with a velocity sensitive strip under the keys and make it a MIDI. Then I could get a MOOG synth and very tastefully (mix) the two instrument sounds together. This would give me a really broad sound pallet to choose from.

[zambiland]

While the EH bass synth is very cool, it's much more Headhunters than Phil Lesh. The main thing would be to cop his phrasing. Play the Rhodes through a Fender Showman and JBL 15s and that might bring the tone into the ballpark.

Let us know how it comes out!

[FranklinsTower]

Thank you so much for the reply-- couple of follow up questions.

On the Fender which is new to me (I just googled it)-- they are all used right? So if I buy used is there a range of years that are the best?
Also if there ended up being something wrong with it is this something that can be repaired?

I also googled the speakers but so many different kinds came up. Would you mind possibly putting a link for the ones you mean?

On the EH synth-- Ill have five days to send it back if it doesn't sound right. I just thought it might bring in some of that brighter tone.

I don't even have the Bass piano yet-- just playing on a Yamaha simulation keyboard but I have heard that the upper harmonics are less in a bass piano than in a guitar and one of the things I like about Lesh is that his bass often sounds bright. My bass is actually going to be a brand new Vintage Vibes bass piano 44 keys. They make them in NY by hand.

Thanks again man.

[zambiland]

The Showman is a vintage amp, but there are more modern versions, depending on your budget. Lots of us use the SMS Classic Tube Pre, which is very similar, coupled with a power amp. Or an Alembic F2B.

The speaker I'm talking about would ideally be a JBL K140 in a basic cabinet. I use a Sunn 200S, which is two of them in a cabinet made in the 60s. Sounds amazing. Again, it's vintage, so other options are out there. So, no links. Sorry about that.

Of course, if you are going for an 80s/90s Modulus tone, then it's kind of a different story. I would think a sampled setup might work a bit better, but you'd want to make your own samples. It's a pretty distinct tone. At that point, any hifi rig would cut it, maybe one of those QSC powered speakers.

Maybe you could point us to a recording that you'd like to emulate.

[FranklinsTower]

Ill do it when I get the chance. It sounds like the speakers are more important than i thought. I am using a 300 dollar Behringer pa speaker right now. Maybe the smart money is on picking the right sound setup before I start trying to add effects.

[brbadg]

Great! I was completely happy with my bass rig ( eden 210 xst and alembic f2b with qsc power amp).Now I gotta go buy a JBL K140 and a single cab to go with it!
Damn!

[ugly rumor]

Very overlooked, and in my opinion better than the Showman series, was the Fender Studio Bass amplifier, which came as a combo with a single EVM-L 15. Point to point hand wired with six 6L6's in the power section. I think it is the best tube amplifier ever made for bass. They can usually be bought fairly cheaply. $300-$800 range. Made between 1977 and 1982, I believe. I use mine with a Meyer 15 in a separate cabinet, and am very happy with it, though I tend to use a Thunderfunk solid state most often, with the same cabinet.

[FranklinsTower]

Very overlooked, and in my opinion better than the Showman series, was the Fender Studio Bass amplifier, which came as a combo with a single EVM-L 15. Point to point hand wired with six 6L6's in the power section. I think it is the best tube amplifier ever made for bass. They can usually be bought fairly cheaply. $300-$800 range. Made between 1977 and 1982, I believe. I use mine with a Meyer 15 in a separate cabinet, and am very happy with it, though I tend to use a Thunderfunk solid state most often, with the same cabinet.

Im kind of new to all of this but it just seems risky to buy something that old.

[ugly rumor]

By all means, stay in your comfort zone. There are those who like vintage, those who, like me, feel there was an apex of quality and a reversion to substandard, as the public will buy what is manufactured regardless, and those who feel that quality is progressive, and that new beats old, today is better than yesterday. It is what makes us an interesting bunch.

[zambiland]

In doing some research about the Fender Studio Bass amp, it seems like it has some great attributes, including a fantastic tone and clarity, but apparently reliability and ease of repair aren't among them. They are not from the golden age of solid Fender construction, but from the years when corners were cut, so one of the big issues is that the chassis itself is not all that sturdy, which can cause flexing and damage to the circuit board. They also didn't use the greatest parts at that time, so the values can drift, parts can go bad, etc. However, as someone who knows which end of a soldering iron to grab, I'd love to have one to turn into a head and run with my Sunn 200S. It does only have an 8 ohm tap, so I'd probably replace the output transformer with a Mercury Magnetics. I'd also love a 400 PS, but those are way too expensive and heavy.

But, I'm pretty happy with a Fender style front end with the Alembic F2B or SMS CTP and a lightweight class D power amp for gigging.