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When did you first realize that Bobby is actually the better guitar player?

PostPosted:Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:42 pm
by 8-6-71 for me
I just figured this out last week...

Re: When did you first realize that Bobby is actually the better guitar player?

PostPosted:Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:20 am
by tcsned
Not better, he is a great player. It ain't a competition.

Re: When did you first realize that Bobby is actually the better guitar player?

PostPosted:Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:09 am
by bzbz
funniest post of the year already!

His playing developed as a response to Garcia's brilliance. Do I need to go on?

Re: When did you first realize that Bobby is actually the better guitar player?

PostPosted:Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:12 am
by strumminsix
bzbz wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:09 am
His playing developed as a response to Garcia's brilliance. Do I need to go on?
In my opinion, he developed himself was as an accompaniment instrument vs lead player for the band not Garcia per say. He was inspired by jazz greats like McCoy Tyner and started modifying his chords and using stacked chords and rhythmic right hand techniques and further into shapes and leading tones in his rhythm.

Going on the Garcia vs Weir "response"... When Healy was fired, Garcia was quoted as saying without hearing Weir and where he was going musically, the listener didn't fully understand where Jerry was going!

All that said, they were equal contributors to the greatest band ever!

Re: When did you first realize that Bobby is actually the better guitar player?

PostPosted:Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:55 am
by TI4-1009
It took me a LONG time to fully appreciate Bobby's skill as a musician and the critical place he played in the evolution of the Dead's music. He had a unique soloist on either side of him and his job was to listen to both of them and form the glue that held it all together. A freekin intimidating job which he accomplished like few others could have- and he had no "user's manual" to follow.

But don't get me started on his slide playing.... :shock:

Re: When did you first realize that Bobby is actually the better guitar player?

PostPosted:Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:03 pm
by paulinnc
I could be crazy but I felt his playing was much better in the 70's. From the 80's on it just sounds like he makes little noises here and there and doesn't really play much. It could also be the guitar tone changing to that awful sound he had in the 80's and 90's. I could be wrong and just totally missing something.

Here are some examples of what I'm talking about . First Bertha from 1972. Great playing, really solid and a nice full sounding tone.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwwIK3vS3NA
Here is Althea from Alpine 89. To me it just sounds like he is making some squeaks and slides here and there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL2_Mdc_NfI

What am I missing?

Re: When did you first realize that Bobby is actually the better guitar player?

PostPosted:Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:48 pm
by mgbills
I started seeing shows in '81, and honestly I was Tabbed to the gills for most of my early shows. By the mid-80's I was deep in the Jerry-Phil-O-Rama but as noted Bob was often beyond my mental grasp. I'm sure I've already put on RuKind that when he's Errr-Eeeeking (especially loudly or too prominent in the mix) the point is lost on me.

Over the last 12 years (or so) of dedicated practice I've learned to hear the EPIC Bob. Especially in the 70's. Man his playing is so absolutely intrinsic to the tapestry that is the GD sound at times. No guitar player can do what Bob does when he's on. He played great this summer. I was right in front at Autzen between John & Bob and he was Ace'n it. Back a few at the beginning of the Further years he was rig-didlin' and Err-Eeeeekin' loudly and constantly. I actually remember in '86 or so I thought he had it out for me personally. I thought he'd see me in row 25 and bust out the Err-Eeeeker'.

I think that one day I will understand it all. I love Bob now, and absolutely have 100% respect for his contributions, after wondering WTF for quite a few years.

But ...There is no one close to the FatMan. Sorry to disagree. Apples and Oranges, really. Jerry had that divine courage to build endless melodies, riffs within riffs, songs within songs, night after night...and he is/was without equal.

Re: When did you first realize that Bobby is actually the better guitar player?

PostPosted:Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:41 am
by czyfingers
In response to paulinnc's comment-(don't know how to do the quotes thing) I agree that in the 70's he rocked and had a much more organic tone and that much of his 80's/90's tone was shit, but I think the reason we heard so little of it in the 80's (good or bad) was because of the famed being super low in the mix most of the time ala Healy. Combined with Brent coming aboard and filling so much space with his amazing contributions. He did get turned back up in the mix as the 90's went on though and I suspect that was due to Brent being gone and the fact that sadly Jerry's chops were slowly degrading.
That said...I've spent much more time learning and emulating Jerry style in my guitar playing years, but also occasionally dabbled in Bob's style and I have to say that #1 it's genius and so very unique and #2 it's not easy. I'm often found thinking "what the hell is he doing right there??" I have much respect for what he accomplished beside Jerry and also for how he's carried the torch and kept it going all these years since. He certainly didn't need to do it. He could've just went off the radar but he chose the music (and more $$ of course) and that alone makes him cool and an American legend in my book.

Re: When did you first realize that Bobby is actually the better guitar player?

PostPosted:Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:55 am
by kurt eye
I have a strong appreciation for Weir. I think his Gibson and Cowboy tone was great, but I can't grasp what he was after with the Modulus. I'm guessing he moved away from the Gibson as being too muddy sounding, but the 80s and 90s sound with the Modulus was so thin and staccato. I think it would have been cool if Bobby played lead for a few measures once in a while to mix things up (not on slide). I think that would have enhanced his reputation as a guitar player.

Re: When did you first realize that Bobby is actually the better guitar player?

PostPosted:Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:53 am
by czyfingers
Kurt...it's funny that you mentioned him taking a lead once in a while because I've also thought the same thing. But to this day, even when encouraged to do it, he really doesn't ever do it in what most would consider a real "lead" kind of way and he doesn't really look comfortable when he's put in that position. Once or twice through the progression and he's usually done.

Re: When did you first realize that Bobby is actually the better guitar player?

PostPosted:Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:48 am
by aiq
Weir as co-lead singer, writer, and guitarist in GD is wonderful stuff. Better than Garcia as a player? Throwing the nay no.

Re: When did you first realize that Bobby is actually the better guitar player?

PostPosted:Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:52 am
by paulinnc
czyfingers wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:53 am
Kurt...it's funny that you mentioned him taking a lead once in a while because I've also thought the same thing. But to this day, even when encouraged to do it, he really doesn't ever do it in what most would consider a real "lead" kind of way and he doesn't really look comfortable when he's put in that position. Once or twice through the progression and he's usually done.
I think that's because he can't really play that great.

Re: When did you first realize that Bobby is actually the better guitar player?

PostPosted:Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:48 am
by Jon S.
Music is not a competition. Both were/are great.

Re: When did you first realize that Bobby is actually the better guitar player?

PostPosted:Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:20 am
by kurt eye
Its bizarre that he shies away from playing leads especially nowadays. It can't be lack of ability. Any moron can solo. I'm proof of that. I guess its just not his style.

Re: When did you first realize that Bobby is actually the better guitar player?

PostPosted:Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:37 am
by czyfingers
I agree...I find playing what he does play far more difficult than soloing.