#142364  by GratefulMets
 Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:31 am
Other than it being exactly what Bob used, would you say that IVP preamp is critical in really attaining that late 70's/early 80s tone? What other preamps have you guys had success with? I'm looking at setting up our Bobby player with an SMS. I know it's a great, classic and versatile preamp, but wonder if there's anything the IVP adds that the SMS cant?

Compared to the never ending discussions about the specifics of Jerry's gear, there doesn't seem to be the same level of discussion (obsession) around the exact components Bob used, and how they are ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL to sounding like Bob.

Much advice on getting Bob's sound seems to emphasize Bob's playing style, more than specific gear. I totally get that. But I still assume there are some specific gear choices that will help.

Would like to hear you guys' take on this.

Thanks all
 #142366  by strumminsix
 Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:09 am
IMO:
Bob changed gear so frequently it would be hard to really get as anal as folks do about Jerry's.
Plus Bobby had some sponsors like Ibanez and Peavey so I've wondered if that came into play at times.


The SMS preamp sounds fantastic. It's a great Fender BF sound and shines in all areas. Get a good poweramp and you're set. For Bobby tones I'd look to something more organic than the Jerry guys go for so maybe Mesa or Rocktron or TubeWorks.
 #142368  by Dozin
 Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:48 am
I don't think the IVP is as important as the guitar. Weir has that great Ibanez tone from 76 through 83. If you have the correct pickups you're in the game and it doesn't matter what you plug into. What preamps did Weir use during that time period? Mesa, Peavey and an IVP. It's just another preamp. Yes, the IVP has pre and post effects loop,.. etc. However, I think the SMS would do you just fine. Plus you'll need a reverb unit with the IVP.

With the right guitar pickups you can plug into any amp and it will sound great. A few of us here recommend the Roland Jazz Chorus. It's a fantastic amp.

I also think the Ego Whampler Compressor is a great tool to have. It gives the tone a boost that sparkles and you can get that nice Weir attack and sustain with this pedal. I absolutely love it.

The AD230 Flanger/Delay is "the effect" for flanger.
 #142371  by GratefulMets
 Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:24 am
Thanks for the responses. I'm thinking the SMS along with a Rocktron 300 could work well, given the definition/reactance controls in that amp. I found it to be pretty tube like when I used one.

My guy just ordered one of the new Ibanez Artist Series AR620s. http://www.ibanez.co.jp/products/u_eg_p ... color=CL01
I'm sure not as sweet as a late 70s Artist, but they do appear to be getting positive reviews. So, I'm hoping that the Super 80 pick-ups w/tri-sound should give him a great starting point.

Will have to check out the wampler compressor. Would you say it's better than the compression in the UE-405?

Finally, any specific speaker/cabinet config suggestions? Medium sized clubs, and we've always got the cabs mic'd, but i'm wondering if a 1x12 would cut it?

Thanks again!
 #142374  by strumminsix
 Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:35 pm
I've been gigging for years in the "Weir roles" in many bands. Every time we're mic'd I bring a customized 22W Deluxe style amp. So yes, a 1x12 will work fine if you get a monitor ;)
 #142393  by JDB30
 Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:15 pm
Like some others on this forum, I've been working toward this sound for awhile. Dozin, Michael Kaufman and I have exchanged notes and also consulted the photographic record to learn as much as is knowable. In order of importance, here is what I've learned, thus far:

1) Technique---you can replicate the gear but unless you understand Weir's style and approach to playing, you'll never really "get there." This includes not only his unusual chord voicings but, also, how he attacks the strings. Using the same picks (Dunlop Jazz 1's) that he does, helps a bit.

2) Guitar--Getting the Ibanez Artist is a start but you'll need to find a good luthier and install a middle Single Coil pickup if you want to get close to replicating Bob's tone. And you'll need to wire it in reverse of what is "normal". Furthermore, you'll need to replicate the on board Active EQ on "Cowboy". There are people out there that can build you a pedal that does this. This EQ was an essential part of the magic "tone"

3) Preamps/Amps--as mentioned above, Weir used a lot of different amps. The Mesa Boogie tube head he used in '77 was awesome. That tone he had in May '77 was, in my opinion, as good as anything he ever had. The IVP is, honestly, not the key component of his tone. However, the EQ on it is important to get right, if you're going to use it. Several people on this forum have reported great results with the Roland Jazz Chorus amps. For simple gigging, the JC-77 is a great choice---I've heard it myself and MK gets great tones out of this. The SMS pre-amps are awesome units (I own a Revelation pre-amp by SMS) but, in my opinion, it gets you much closer to Weir's '72 sound than his '77-'82 sound. I use mine to get closer to "Keef" type stuff than Weir stuff.

4) Effects--these changed a lot, too, but, to my ear, spring reverb, Ashly SC-50 & chorus/flange are important elements. There is some debate as to whether the Ashly was limiting or compressing (I've seen settings for both). Also, it's unclear whether or not he also used the compressor in his UE-400 multi-effects unit. What is clear is that the attack on his guitar is part of this sound and it wouldn't be surprising to have an effect accentuate this.

5) Power Amp/Speakers--to me, these are the least important elements of the sound. You have a lot of options if you go with a rack system, including using a cab simulator (which is what Weir does nowadays).

Hope this helps...
 #142400  by Dozin
 Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:51 pm
Yes, what JDB said.

Since you're thinking about putting the super 80's in the guitar I'd try scoring a DiMarzio DP410 and if you can't find that single coil go with the DP416. It's essential to have that middle coil and install it as close to the bridge pickup as possible.

JDB modified his Ibanez, it looks killer and it sounds awesome