#171757  by Gr8fulCadi
 
Congrats! The Timmy was designed to get a transparent, amp-like overdrive at lesser volumes. Is it the same as a Twin on 7? Nope. But nothing is, other than a Twin on 7. Enjoy!
 #171770  by milobender
 
Get a used Quilter Mach II head, a thick air pedal, and a couple of JBL k or d 120s (I like one of each) and you will be one HAPPY CAMPER!

Forgot to mention, not only does this give you killer home volume stuff, but you can change the settings and play practically anywhere out, 200 watts, but then if you're pushing it, you'd need E120s... medium clubs to bedroom it's stellar
 #171771  by TI4-1009
 
8-6-71 for me wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:28 am
As a practical matter a Fender Champ with a JBL D-208 speaker is the solution. Instantly recognizable JBL tone and tube warmth and some grit at like "4" from a 6 watt amp.
:musicsmile:
 #171772  by Chocol8
 
Just listened to some 72 shows while on a long drive (4/26 Lovelight…OMFG!!! I forgot how good that was! :o ) and my thought is that you are hearing the power tubes starting to distort here. This is the end of the era where he uses the full Twin Reverbs before they went to the pre-amp out and the original pre-Budman MacIntosh’s around late 72, early 73. IMHO Jerry’s tone trended down from here, although the tb500 era tones are pretty good too, and I think it’s because he lost the power section saturation when they went to the pre-amp outs.

You won’t get this sound from dirt pedals or hitting pre-amp triode tubes hard. The best way to get this sound is going to be to really drive a pair or quad of 6L6’s and then figure out how to tame the volume.

I think a reactive load attenuator or load box is the way to go here. Push the amp, get the tubes cookin’ and then absorb the excessive (for home) power in the load box and re-amp it with a clean SS amp into one or more JBL’s. The chain will be somewhat similar to the popular pre-amp setups and Jerry’s post 72 rigs, but when you include the phase inverter, power tubes and output transformer in the chain the sound is different, more saturated and less clean than later Jerry. That setup will get you Europe 72 with a Strat and the late 60’s through 71 tones (mostly) with Les Pauls with p90’s or an SG with hums. Turn down to keep it clean and you will be pretty close to the later rig tones as well.
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 #171777  by Gr8fulCadi
 
I have a Fryette PS2 which I recommended above, does a 2 ohm load. But even with that, a huge equation is still missing from the 72’ tone…stressing out the JBL’s at insanely loud volumes. You don’t get that with an attenuator, reactive load etc. at bedroom volume.
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 #171779  by Phrygian
 
Gr8fulCadi wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:11 pm I have a Fryette PS2 which I recommended above, does a 2 ohm load. But even with that, a huge equation is still missing from the 72’ tone…stressing out the JBL’s at insanely loud volumes. You don’t get that with an attenuator, reactive load etc. at bedroom volume.
Agreed. Another missing element from the equation is that I am not Jerry Garcia. My aim is to get a sound close enough to have some fun playing along with the recordings, trying to improve my own playing, and learning (stealing) some licks.
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 #171784  by Chocol8
 
Gr8fulCadi wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:11 pm But even with that, a huge equation is still missing from the 72’ tone…stressing out the JBL’s at insanely loud volumes.
I don’t think the JBL’s were stressed out in 1972. By that time Jerry would have been using either cloth surround D120F’s or early K120’s. Either one has a power handling or around 100-150 watts continuous depending on frequency, and with the bass turned to 0, they would be at the upper end of the range. This was the pre-Mac era, so the Twin Reverbs (several!) were putting out about 80 watts to a pair of speakers or about 40 watts each. If they were also using extension cabs, it would have been more like 20 watts each. Either way, the speakers were loafing along and not adding significant compression or distortion.

The two things you will be missing with any low volume solution are the way human ears react to loud volumes, and the way the guitar reacts to loud stage volume. You can partially correct for the fist one with a Fletcher-Munson curve, but there is nothing that substitutes for the sound hitting the guitar and strings.
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 #172030  by TI4-1009
 
Rick Turner (who should know) just posted this on the Facebook GD Musician Discussion group, along with 5 or 6 photos. Sweet.

"Yes, kind of a legendary amplifier...one of three "Super Bear" Fender Princeton Reverb amps modded by Owsley Stanley for use by Jerry Garcia and other members of the New Riders of the Purple Sage and the Grateful Dead. This one was likely Jerry's rehearsal pedal steel amp. 1967 build...then modded with a beefed up power supply with choke making the amp dead quiet...unless played! Bear added a midrange tone control and a bright switch, basically giving the amp the front end of the reverb channel of a Twin Reverb. Oh, did I mention the JBL D-120F speaker? Reconed, likely by Dennis Wiz Leonard in 1973. Note that NRPS is crossed out, and GD written on the basket. Significantly more sensitive than the original 10" speaker, this speaker is the equivalent of doubling (or more) the power of the amp. Yeah, clean and loud...kind of the ultimate small Jerry tone amp."

"home levels"- IF you have a big home :lol:
 #172035  by Cumtax
 
I don't have JBLs but California Weber which should be some sort of inspired-by speakers. At low volumes, they sound good but the "jerry magic" happens when that twin is working at the edge of breakup. With 50s pickups when you bend at that sweet spot you definitely have that kind of "steel\metal\alloy" tone I always associated Jerry with.

Sarno's Earth Drive I noticed helped me get that metallic shine I love at lower volumes but the natural breakup is just different.

Back speaking of associations, that's also an important thing that musicians never talk about. When we hear our heroes we all bring home different aspects of what constitutes "signature tone". Some of you may associate Jerry with rapid slurs, some may associate Jerry with the thick SG sound of the early 60s and all of us will absorb different things as an influence. That's super fascinating to me, what makes us all different but also a constant reminder that chasing "jerry's tones" (or whatever artist) has to stop at some point, a good time to take a step back and analyze what's the special blend of "heroes" that make myself a unique player.
 #172036  by Jon S.
 
Cumtax wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:27 pmwhat makes us all different but also a constant reminder that chasing "jerry's tones" (or whatever artist) has to stop at some point, a good time to take a step back and analyze what's the special blend of "heroes" that make myself a unique player.
I lack the words to tell you how deeply I concur with you here.

I've experienced people actually expressing anger at me for pointing out that you can "be like Jerry" by attempting to reproduce his gear and/or guitar tone precisely -OR- you can "be like Jerry" by refusing ever to slavishly copy anyone else, instead developing your own, fit-for-you signature tone.

Myself, truthfully, I LOVE Jerry's tones (plural - all of them over the years). I've invested a ton of time and money over the decades chasing it. But in my "old age," especially as I've moved from covers to originals, more and more, I'm just trying to sound like the best Jon S. possible.
Last edited by Jon S. on Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 #172037  by Jon S.
 
[Accidental double post]
 #172039  by Cumtax
 
Jon S. wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:39 pm
Cumtax wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:27 pmwhat makes us all different but also a constant reminder that chasing "jerry's tones" (or whatever artist) has to stop at some point, a good time to take a step back and analyze what's the special blend of "heroes" that make myself a unique player.
I lack the words to tell you how deeply I concur with you here.

I've experienced people actually expressing anger at me for pointing out that you can "be like Jerry" by attempting to reproduce his gear and/or guitar tone precisely -OR- you can "be like Jerry" by refusing ever to slavishly copy anyone else, instead developing your own, fit-for-you signature tone.

Myself, truthfully, I LOVE Jerry's tones (plural - all of them over the years). I've invested a ton of time and money over the decades chasing it. But in my "old age," especially as I've moved from covers to originals, more and more, I'm just trying to sound like the best Jon S. possible.
John Mayer once said that you realize who you are when you fail at copying your hero. He was referring to SRV.
You can see his rig and SRV still is there in some ways but now he's so much blended with John Mayer that you only recognize glimpses and influences as such and not as "a cosplaying SRV". This rings true even for his approach at Jerrying with D&Co.

This is the goal IMHO. I too love Jerry, as a matter of fact, IMHO he has the best tone and you take at glance at my rig and you can see that Jerry is there but by no means you would assume that it's only about him. I like to mix things up as a (super) slow process of blending all things I love in an organic way.
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