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Re: "Battle of the BF preamp pedals"

PostPosted:Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:04 pm
by wpmartin1979
Jon S. wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:50 am I'm confused about the Torpedo unit. It doesn't include an on-board POWER amp, does it? I mean a true power amp, not models of ones. But if it does, how many watts does it put out?
Jon I think that it is a power amp simulator that you can use for IR. I’m not positive though.

Re: "Battle of the BF preamp pedals"

PostPosted:Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:29 am
by wpmartin1979
strumminsix wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:17 am
wpmartin1979 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:53 am
strumminsix wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:28 am

I'm just looking at it... single piece of gear. has your preamp, poweramp, IR, and reverb. all from Two-Notes who has some of the best in modelling.

take the 74 bassman, not ideal, but same family
add the Silver77: Inspired by Fender Twin Reverb® 2×12 with orange JBL speakers (D120F)
Pentode
Class AB
KT88
Studio reverb

Bet it'd be ballpark in minutes.
A lot of people on the Gear page actually pair it with the Shift Line or the Ethos Clean. This may have been an older version though ... not sure but I saw it pop up a lot when I was researching the Shiftline.
They do indeed. But that's cuz the older version didn't have the bassman preamp :)
Ok, that makes sense! I also continue to hear really good things about the Strymon Iridium, especially the Fender channel. No preamp though also. It sure it has reverb although I believe it has a room setting (similar)- and I guess what you are looking for is an all in one package which is why the Torpedo looks so good. Overall I’ve heard good things about Bassman amps/heads, but not familiar with the specific tone footprints.

Re: "Battle of the BF preamp pedals"

PostPosted:Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:00 pm
by strumminsix
wpmartin1979 wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:29 am
strumminsix wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:17 am
wpmartin1979 wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:53 am

A lot of people on the Gear page actually pair it with the Shift Line or the Ethos Clean. This may have been an older version though ... not sure but I saw it pop up a lot when I was researching the Shiftline.
They do indeed. But that's cuz the older version didn't have the bassman preamp :)
Ok, that makes sense! I also continue to hear really good things about the Strymon Iridium, especially the Fender channel. No preamp though also. It sure it has reverb although I believe it has a room setting (similar)- and I guess what you are looking for is an all in one package which is why the Torpedo looks so good. Overall I’ve heard good things about Bassman amps/heads, but not familiar with the specific tone footprints.
The Iridium does do amp (pre and power) + cab modelling. The reverb is called room which I think sounds nice and very organic, but not JG like at all. But wonderful for what it is.

I've played through Bmans before, very similar to my former Bandmaster reverb. Good amps!! To me, very broad brush, they sit between a Twin and a Deluxe.

Re: "Battle of the BF preamp pedals"

PostPosted:Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:56 pm
by wpmartin1979
strumminsix wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:00 pm
wpmartin1979 wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:29 am
strumminsix wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:17 am
They do indeed. But that's cuz the older version didn't have the bassman preamp :)
Ok, that makes sense! I also continue to hear really good things about the Strymon Iridium, especially the Fender channel. No preamp though also. It sure it has reverb although I believe it has a room setting (similar)- and I guess what you are looking for is an all in one package which is why the Torpedo looks so good. Overall I’ve heard good things about Bassman amps/heads, but not familiar with the specific tone footprints.
The Iridium does do amp (pre and power) + cab modelling. The reverb is called room which I think sounds nice and very organic, but not JG like at all. But wonderful for what it is.

I've played through Bmans before, very similar to my former Bandmaster reverb. Good amps!! To me, very broad brush, they sit between a Twin and a Deluxe.
Curious, does the Shiftline MKIIIS have a power amp sim with the IR. You can upload different cab sims like Hard Trucker w/ JBLs right?

Re: "Battle of the BF preamp pedals"

PostPosted:Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:18 pm
by strumminsix
wpmartin1979 wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:56 pm
strumminsix wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:00 pm
wpmartin1979 wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:29 am

Ok, that makes sense! I also continue to hear really good things about the Strymon Iridium, especially the Fender channel. No preamp though also. It sure it has reverb although I believe it has a room setting (similar)- and I guess what you are looking for is an all in one package which is why the Torpedo looks so good. Overall I’ve heard good things about Bassman amps/heads, but not familiar with the specific tone footprints.
The Iridium does do amp (pre and power) + cab modelling. The reverb is called room which I think sounds nice and very organic, but not JG like at all. But wonderful for what it is.

I've played through Bmans before, very similar to my former Bandmaster reverb. Good amps!! To me, very broad brush, they sit between a Twin and a Deluxe.
Curious, does the Shiftline MKIIIS have a power amp sim with the IR. You can upload different cab sims like Hard Trucker w/ JBLs right?
You can load IRs with the IIIS. That's the speaker plus mic. JBL plus Senn 421 near center makes a good start.

Re: "Battle of the BF preamp pedals"

PostPosted:Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:24 am
by wpmartin1979
[/quote]
You can load IRs with the IIIS. That's the speaker plus mic. JBL plus Senn 421 near center makes a good start.
[/quote]

Oh yeah I see they have an IR for a Twin with JBL D120s , cool.

I’d be super curious to hear your thoughts on the Torpedo if you decide to give it a go.

Re: "Battle of the BF preamp pedals"

PostPosted:Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:04 pm
by GoodTrips
Curious how you ran the Maiden BF. I’ve been running one for a few years now into the fX loop return of a Mesa Lonestar head (100w 6L6 power section), then into a homemade hard trucker style cab I made with a pair of K120’s. It is dead on Jerry 72 tone and punchy as hell. I also replaced the 12AX7 in the Maiden with a NOS RCA 7025 which makes a huge difference from the stock TungSol in the pedal. The 7025 is period correct for Jerry’s twin tone. I run several Kingsley preamps on my board this way and it is an amazing thing to go from a clean Jerry tone to a raging Marshall (Kingsley Constable) to a raucous tweed 5e3 (Troubadour) with the click of a footswitch.

One clarification. I read someone here state that the Maiden D is similar to the BF. I’ve had both side by side and sold the D pretty quickly. It had a lot more mids than the BF. While you can tweak them to sound alike, the range where they do that is small and neither one sounds good with those settings.

Re: "Battle of the BF preamp pedals"

PostPosted:Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:12 am
by strumminsix
wpmartin1979 wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:24 am
You can load IRs with the IIIS. That's the speaker plus mic. JBL plus Senn 421 near center makes a good start.
[/quote]

Oh yeah I see they have an IR for a Twin with JBL D120s , cool.

I’d be super curious to hear your thoughts on the Torpedo if you decide to give it a go.
[/quote]
Lots of cool stuff on their page. Plus can create your own.

Re: "Battle of the BF preamp pedals"

PostPosted:Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:21 am
by wpmartin1979
GoodTrips wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:04 pm Curious how you ran the Maiden BF. I’ve been running one for a few years now into the fX loop return of a Mesa Lonestar head (100w 6L6 power section), then into a homemade hard trucker style cab I made with a pair of K120’s. It is dead on Jerry 72 tone and punchy as hell. I also replaced the 12AX7 in the Maiden with a NOS RCA 7025 which makes a huge difference from the stock TungSol in the pedal. The 7025 is period correct for Jerry’s twin tone. I run several Kingsley preamps on my board this way and it is an amazing thing to go from a clean Jerry tone to a raging Marshall (Kingsley Constable) to a raucous tweed 5e3 (Troubadour) with the click of a footswitch.

One clarification. I read someone here state that the Maiden D is similar to the BF. I’ve had both side by side and sold the D pretty quickly. It had a lot more mids than the BF. While you can tweak them to sound alike, the range where they do that is small and neither one sounds good with those settings.
I was running the Maiden into a power amp (using it as a preamp), then into JBLs. I thought it sounded really good, but was heavy on the low end tones for Jerry. When I turned the treble up and bass down I felt it lost some of its charm, I thought it sounded way better with the treble and bass at noon.

For the price I felt that the Shift Line was way more Twin like at half the cost, whereas the Maiden was twice as expensive but needed to be tweaked to get the treble heavy Jerry tone. The Maiden was more versatile though as an all around Fender box. I’m sure it sounds really great. Not that it can’t be used for Jerry tones, it definitely can and sounds good.

Have you ever A/B d it with other preamps (Shift Line, Blackbird, etc?).

Right now the Blackbird is actually my favorite as the overdrive channel kicks major ass. Also the clean channel is extremely Twin Like - but the overdrive is the best I’ve ever played. With the Maiden you have to spend more $$ to get overdrive or get your hands on V2.

In my case it was just a matter of the Shiftline sounding better for Jerry at half the price (I bought both the maiden and Shiftline used) - I knew I could sell the Maiden quickly so - that was my thinking - not that there is anything wrong with the Maiden, it is a very nice pedal.

Of course this is just my opinion and different tubes can make a big difference with any preamp.

Re: "Battle of the BF preamp pedals"

PostPosted:Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:56 am
by Gr8fulCadi
I have the non M version of the Torpedo CAB. I have only used it for recording so far and in conjunction with a Fryette PS2 for silent recording. Basically cranking a tube amp without distribution anyone. I’ll have to check out using it in a live situation

Re: "Battle of the BF preamp pedals"

PostPosted:Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:44 pm
by GoodTrips
wpmartin1979 wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:21 am
GoodTrips wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:04 pm Curious how you ran the Maiden BF. I’ve been running one for a few years now into the fX loop return of a Mesa Lonestar head (100w 6L6 power section), then into a homemade hard trucker style cab I made with a pair of K120’s. It is dead on Jerry 72 tone and punchy as hell. I also replaced the 12AX7 in the Maiden with a NOS RCA 7025 which makes a huge difference from the stock TungSol in the pedal. The 7025 is period correct for Jerry’s twin tone. I run several Kingsley preamps on my board this way and it is an amazing thing to go from a clean Jerry tone to a raging Marshall (Kingsley Constable) to a raucous tweed 5e3 (Troubadour) with the click of a footswitch.

One clarification. I read someone here state that the Maiden D is similar to the BF. I’ve had both side by side and sold the D pretty quickly. It had a lot more mids than the BF. While you can tweak them to sound alike, the range where they do that is small and neither one sounds good with those settings.
I was running the Maiden into a power amp (using it as a preamp), then into JBLs. I thought it sounded really good, but was heavy on the low end tones for Jerry. When I turned the treble up and bass down I felt it lost some of its charm, I thought it sounded way better with the treble and bass at noon.

For the price I felt that the Shift Line was way more Twin like at half the cost, whereas the Maiden was twice as expensive but needed to be tweaked to get the treble heavy Jerry tone. The Maiden was more versatile though as an all around Fender box. I’m sure it sounds really great. Not that it can’t be used for Jerry tones, it definitely can and sounds good.

Have you ever A/B d it with other preamps (Shift Line, Blackbird, etc?).

Right now the Blackbird is actually my favorite as the overdrive channel kicks major ass. Also the clean channel is extremely Twin Like - but the overdrive is the best I’ve ever played. With the Maiden you have to spend more $$ to get overdrive or get your hands on V2.

In my case it was just a matter of the Shiftline sounding better for Jerry at half the price (I bought both the maiden and Shiftline used) - I knew I could sell the Maiden quickly so - that was my thinking - not that there is anything wrong with the Maiden, it is a very nice pedal.

Of course this is just my opinion and different tubes can make a big difference with any preamp.
Yes I had the Blackbird first and then sold it after comparing it head to head with the Maiden, but I haven’t tried the Twinline. I thought the Blackbird had a fantastic sounding clean channel, The biggest complaint about the blackbird is the dirt channels, so I’m glad your liking it. I found the dirt channels improved with the right NOS tubes, but next to the Constable it was no contest for me. The biggest thing for me was how much lower the output levels were on the Blackbird, It seems to be made more for a direct application, and because of that it seemed to lack some punch compared to the Maiden, and seemed more akin to a Deluxe reverb as opposed to a Twin. I know the only real difference between the deluxe and twin in the preamp section is the fixed resistor for mids but the lower output also made it difficult to pair with other preamps on my board as there would be a significant drop when switching between them. If all your playing on your board is the Blackbird then this would probably not be an issue.

I definitely have found the bass on the Maiden to be different than your experience. I run the bass on my Maiden very low, much like on a real twin. I’ve found it sounds the best and stays tight that way. I’m wondering if perhaps you actually had a Maiden D or if you had the bass pot pulled, which introduces a lot more mids. There is always a lot of confusion around the different versions of Kingsleys which come in identical enclosures, so it wouldn’t be the first time someone bought a used Maiden thinking it was a BF/D/TB and actually got a different version because of seller confusion. Anyhow, glad you found what works best for you and best of luck.

Re: "Battle of the BF preamp pedals"

PostPosted:Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:05 pm
by strumminsix

Re: "Battle of the BF preamp pedals"

PostPosted:Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:00 pm
by wpmartin1979
Yes I had the Blackbird first and then sold it after comparing it head to head with the Maiden, but I haven’t tried the Twinline. I thought the Blackbird had a fantastic sounding clean channel, The biggest complaint about the blackbird is the dirt channels, so I’m glad your liking it. I found the dirt channels improved with the right NOS tubes, but next to the Constable it was no contest for me. The biggest thing for me was how much lower the output levels were on the Blackbird, It seems to be made more for a direct application, and because of that it seemed to lack some punch compared to the Maiden, and seemed more akin to a Deluxe reverb as opposed to a Twin. I know the only real difference between the deluxe and twin in the preamp section is the fixed resistor for mids but the lower output also made it difficult to pair with other preamps on my board as there would be a significant drop when switching between them. If all your playing on your board is the Blackbird then this would probably not be an issue.

I definitely have found the bass on the Maiden to be different than your experience. I run the bass on my Maiden very low, much like on a real twin. I’ve found it sounds the best and stays tight that way. I’m wondering if perhaps you actually had a Maiden D or if you had the bass pot pulled, which introduces a lot more mids. There is always a lot of confusion around the different versions of Kingsleys which come in identical enclosures, so it wouldn’t be the first time someone bought a used Maiden thinking it was a BF/D/TB and actually got a different version because of seller confusion. Anyhow, glad you found what works best for you and best of luck.
[/quote]

———————————
Hmmmm, well as far as the drive channel i just have the volume up higher than the clean channel so it sounds like a boost to me, not a drop. Also, if I hit it with my Boostron II (orange squeeze compressor) it absolutely sings and sustains for days. The trick is just to turn the drive knob up to much I keep it around noon or a little less.

Using that same boost on the clean channel is actually enough for great Jerry tones, but the overdrive is just a lot of fun IMHO.

I have A/B d the clean channel with my FYD TRP, which is a hand wired Twin preamp and it basically sounds the same. They are both set with the treble all the way up and the bass all the way down. But I’m only talking about the clean channel.

But yeah, I mean I did t keep the Maiden very long, it I’m pretty sure it was a BF as it came with the original paperwork, etc. and it sounded like a Fender to my ears. I was aware if the pop up knob and kept it down. It could be a difference with my guitars, speakers and overall acoustic surroundings as well. Like I said it’s a nice pedal and I don’t have anything against it except for the price and limitations compared to other options.

The ideas of buying a bunch of Kingsley pedals and putting them all together isn’t what I’m after, I’m actually trying to simplify/downsize from the FYD rig for a portable option.

I’m actually waiting on a Tubesteader Beekeeper ($200) to give that a try - it’s a Dumble ODS thing and even though it’s not Jerry I’m kinda digging the whole Dumble overdrive thing from my experience with the Blackbird. I mean it just sounds so good to my ears and feels so dang good under the fingers.
To each his own!!!!
Thanks for your thoughts man, hopefully we can jam sometime! :-?

Re: "Battle of the BF preamp pedals"

PostPosted:Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:41 pm
by wpmartin1979
More ranting...
In terms of complaints about the Blackbird’s drive channel. I mean, I just can’t comprehend that because the drive channel is completely adjustable in terms of low to medium gain tones, I mean you can dial it in however you want, so I can’t understand what the complaint would be. If the level is too low you can crank the volume and turn down the drive. It’s not a Twin, but it’s not even supposed to be Fender. It’s a four stage Dumble/Soldano which are the most sought after medium gain tones. I’ve tried tons of ODs and this one kills all of them. It is highly adjustable.
For example, I was A/B ing the drive channel with the Sarno Earth Drive into the clean channel and was able to totally replicate the Earth Drive but with an added “tube” harmonic richness.
So, I mean I guess a lot of factors go into people’s impressions like how many pedals you are using, etc. and what pedals you are using together. Also, I’m sure if you want a huge pedal board or want to spend a lot on a bunch of pedals the Kingsleys may sound better, I mean there’s no doubt the Kingsleys sound good, but a preamp plus OD will run $1000.
My goal is to simplify as much as possible so I m just using the Blackbird with a Microtron and Boostron II. The whole rig fits on a Pedaltrain Nano. It’s a complete rig with many tonal options and these are the best tones I’ve ever gotten out of anything I’ve tried.

Re: "Battle of the BF preamp pedals"

PostPosted:Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:38 am
by Jon S.
How's your Blackbird's output level compared to your FYD's? I returned the cheapie Joyo American Sound I'd bought because its output level was relatively anemic.

Re: its ODS-based lead channel, Dumble tones, too, are like licorice. :wink: