#169036  by lbpesq
 
wpmartin1979 wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:00 am Bill where did you get the Raytheon knobs? I have found h to see to be very pricey ... like to the point where for three knobs would cost $50-$100.
Also quality brass nut usually $20-$30 minimum.
I saw your Alligator and it was a stunning work of art on another level of attention to detail and quality.
Are you willing to give up your sources? Lol

The knobs are model # MS91528-1F2B. If you do a search on line, you will find several sources, though the prices are all over the place. I don’t recall which vendor I just used, the info is on my computer at work, but I got two sets (6 knobs) for about $45 including shipping. The scalloped brass nut is about $20 with shipping off of eBay. I am now making my own brass channel bridge. That’s perhaps the hardest to find and most expensive part for an Alligator. I am also making a brass sustain block, like was in the final version of Alligator. None of the used brass channel bridges I’ve seen for sale have included the brass sustain block. I may make an extra or two and put them up for sale on my reverb store: “420 Guitars”.

Bill
 #169037  by wpmartin1979
 
lbpesq wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:47 am
wpmartin1979 wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:00 am Bill where did you get the Raytheon knobs? I have found h to see to be very pricey ... like to the point where for three knobs would cost $50-$100.
Also quality brass nut usually $20-$30 minimum.
I saw your Alligator and it was a stunning work of art on another level of attention to detail and quality.
Are you willing to give up your sources? Lol

The knobs are model # MS91528-1F2B. If you do a search on line, you will find several sources, though the prices are all over the place. I don’t recall which vendor I just used, the info is on my computer at work, but I got two sets (6 knobs) for about $45 including shipping. The scalloped brass nut is about $20 with shipping off of eBay. I am now making my own brass channel bridge. That’s perhaps the hardest to find and most expensive part for an Alligator. I am also making a brass sustain block, like was in the final version of Alligator. None of the used brass channel bridges I’ve seen for sale have included the brass sustain block. I may make an extra or two and put them up for sale on my reverb store: “420 Guitars”.

Bill
Thanks for the info! So those knobs work on standard size CTS pits (just double checking)? You’re right about prices ($65ea - $15). From what I’ve seen your craftsmanship is great and its a great idea to make custom parts for Jerry builds. The other piece that would probably sell a lot is the brass pick guard piece (or even completed 2 piece Alligator pick guards) as those can be hard to make and come by.
Can you talk about your process for finishing the body? Do you use tung oil and automobile polish for a satin finish, or another method?
 #169039  by lbpesq
 
While I love Tung Oil and use it to finish most of my builds, on the Alligator I was trying to stay as close to original as possible, so I used rattle-can nitro. After filling the grain and sanding, I first did a coat of vintage amber as the unfinished body was just too white. The coat of amber made it a little too yellow. A little bit of sanding got the color just right. From there is was multiple coats of clear nitro. It probably took me a month to complete the finish.

Bill, tgo
wpmartin1979 liked this
 #169678  by zkinard
 
Here are the pictures of the actual Alie strat-style guitar that I purchased. Really happy with it. The neck feels wonderful and is super smooth and plays fast. Going to do some basic setup work on it. Visual opinions/thoughts welcome:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KHCOfk ... sp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19xRKEZ ... sp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ttl-DM ... sp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cXuxxj ... sp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RnB8Cq ... sp=sharing
Jon S. liked this
 #169712  by wpmartin1979
 
Jon S. wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:15 am
zkinard wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:33 pm Just weighed it with the bathroom scale that I have. The guitar weighs approx. 9.5 - 10 lbs
That's northern ash, all right!
Jon, you still havnt explained why lighter = better. Jerry’s ghost wants answers - he seemed think that heavier = more good from Tiger to Travis Bean - all heavy as heck :-o
 #169713  by Jon S.
 
wpmartin1979 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:39 am
Jon S. wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:15 am
zkinard wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:33 pm Just weighed it with the bathroom scale that I have. The guitar weighs approx. 9.5 - 10 lbs
That's northern ash, all right!
Jon, you still havnt explained why lighter = better. Jerry’s ghost wants answers - he seemed think that heavier = more good from Tiger to Travis Bean - all heavy as heck :-o
I'll try to be careful in how I say this because I don't want to be misunderstood as judgmental or uncaring.

Jerry is my role model for many things. He is not for everything.

Jerry spent much of his life self-medicating. How much of his pain was emotional and how much physical I don't know. I do know (from everything I've read and watched) that Jerry overate, the food he ate was too often of poor quality, he smoked, and he didn't work out.

Whether Jer's personality was intrinsically addictive or not, these factor contributed to his problems.

I have back issue myself. I cannot imagine what playing 3 hour shows with a 13 lb.+ guitar would do to my pain neurons.

If you're healthy and in good shape, by all means, wear a 10 lb.'er. But I don't recommend it. It's neither comfortable nor, for many of us, healthy for our bodies.

As for tone, the relationship of a guitar's weight to its tone is a rabbit hole. My opinion is for every 10 lb'er that sounds great, we can find an equivalent 7-8 lb.'er that sounds just as good.

Accepting arguendo that this is accurate (I realize some don't), I see no reason to own a 10 lb. guitar.
 #169714  by wpmartin1979
 
Your argument is cogent, but it assumes that playing guitar is associated with standing upright. Many players choose to sit and play, Mikey from WSP comes to mind. Many players just play at home and usually sitting down. I actually prefer to play while leaning/sitting on a bar height stool, that’s just my preference, and if I start playing out I’ll probably have a stool handy because that is what I’m used to.
Anyway, this is an interesting topic in my opinion.
This article is interesting in regards to the average weights of guitars.

https://guitaradvise.com/electric-guita ... the%20body.
Jon S. liked this
 #169715  by lbpesq
 
Tiger was over 13 lbs because Doug Irwin built it with brass laminates. I believe this was done for cosmetic reasons. I’ve never heard anyone claim that a brass laminate in a sandwich-type constructed guitar adds to the tone. I think wood type has more of an effect on tone than final weight. Swamp Ash has different properties than Northern “baseball bat” Ash. With back and sciatica issues, I always try to have a stool on stage with me. I have this cool folding stool that doubles as a guitar stand. I go back and forth sitting and standing as I play. I prefer my guitar in the 7-8 lb. range. 10+ lbs. just isn’t comfortable. Of course it bugs me more now than it did 40 years ago!

Bill, tgo
 #169716  by wpmartin1979
 
lbpesq wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:35 am Tiger was over 13 lbs because Doug Irwin built it with brass laminates. I believe this was done for cosmetic reasons.

Bill, tgo
I highly doubt that the brass was simply cosmetic. The inlays, yes, but the brass no. Brass has bell like acoustical properties that vibrate in a specific way sonically. Obviously it is used in the construction of many instruments for that reason.
Jerry was a big fan of New Orleans Dixie land jazz and was probably interested in the acoustical properties of brass as they could relate to the guitar. True the brass was heavy but the cocobolo was also extremely dense and heavy, so it wasn’t just the brass, but also the choice of wood that contributed to the weight. There must have been some kind of consideration of the dense and heavy wood on the tone, I doubt it would all just be for cosmetics.
 #169717  by lbpesq
 
Brass parts like nuts and saddles are very different from a layer of brass built into the body, like a layer of cheese in a sandwich. Cocobolo is on the heavy side - the back lam on my Custom Alembic Further is a thick piece of Cocobolo (I picked it out myself from the factory’s wood pile) - but not that heavy. If building guitars with layers of metal in the body results in enhanced tone, why don’t we see this type of construction on guitars other than these particular Irwin guitars and their copies?

Bill, tgo
 #169718  by wpmartin1979
 
lbpesq wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:01 pm Brass parts like nuts and saddles are very different from a layer of brass built into the body, like a layer of cheese in a sandwich. Cocobolo is on the heavy side - the back lam on my Custom Alembic Further is a thick piece of Cocobolo (I picked it out myself from the factory’s wood pile) - but not that heavy. If building guitars with layers of metal in the body results in enhanced tone, why don’t we see this type of construction on guitars other than these particular Irwin guitars and their copies?

Bill, tgo
It was experimental like everything else Jerry did.
Why would Jerry use brass on every single one of his guitars? Because he thinks it’s pretty? :biggrin:
Please excuse
My sarcasm, but Jerry took his tone seriously, I don’t think there was a method
To most of what he did, that’s just me. Doug Irwin is no tone slouch either in my book. But again, I’m no expert so I defer. :wink:
 #169719  by wpmartin1979
 
lbpesq wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:01 pm Brass parts like nuts and saddles are very different from a layer of brass built into the body, like a layer of cheese in a sandwich.
Bill, tgo
But if the wood and the density of the wood matters, then so to would putting metal in between the wood. It’s like changing the internal properties of the wood, making the wood more “bell” like in its properties.