#168544  by cyrusj83
 
So I replaced my -1.7db Wald TPC-1 Spud Buffer with an adjustable gain buffer which I set to 10db gain (I have OBEL), but my Micro-Tron IV (red Opto-Mod) isn’t quacking quite as well/dramatically as it used to, even when I set the Tron gain to 0 or 1

I’m thinking that that’s just too much gain and it’s overloading the Tron. Has anyone else had experience with this? From what I understand, 77-78 Wolf still had the Stratoblaster gain set to 10 but the Mutron sounds so great.
 #169886  by Jon S.
 
cyrusj83 wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:23 pm So I replaced my -1.7db Wald TPC-1 Spud Buffer with an adjustable gain buffer which I set to 10db gain (I have OBEL), but my Micro-Tron IV (red Opto-Mod) isn’t quacking quite as well/dramatically as it used to, even when I set the Tron gain to 0 or 1

I’m thinking that that’s just too much gain and it’s overloading the Tron. Has anyone else had experience with this? From what I understand, 77-78 Wolf still had the Stratoblaster gain set to 10 but the Mutron sounds so great.
Before you're certain the problem is too much gain into the Tron, try it preceded by a compressor. I know Jerry never did but your rig might benefit from it. FWIW, for my autowah tones, I use the Tron Up model on my Line 6 M13 preceded by the Boost Comp model. Without the preceding Boost Comp, the Tron Up model sounds like turd to me - the transient trebly highs are unbearable. But this is what it sounds like preceded by the compressor:

https://soundcloud.com/gratefuljon/track-4-wav-clip
 #169888  by wpmartin1979
 
Jon S. wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:52 pm
cyrusj83 wrote: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:23 pm So I replaced my -1.7db Wald TPC-1 Spud Buffer with an adjustable gain buffer which I set to 10db gain (I have OBEL), but my Micro-Tron IV (red Opto-Mod) isn’t quacking quite as well/dramatically as it used to, even when I set the Tron gain to 0 or 1

I’m thinking that that’s just too much gain and it’s overloading the Tron. Has anyone else had experience with this? From what I understand, 77-78 Wolf still had the Stratoblaster gain set to 10 but the Mutron sounds so great.
Before you're certain the problem is too much gain into the Tron, try it preceded by a compressor. I know Jerry never did but your rig might benefit from it. FWIW, for my autowah tones, I use the Tron Up model on my Line 6 M13 preceded by the Boost Comp model. Without the preceding Boost Comp, the Tron Up model sounds like turd to me - the transient trebly highs are unbearable. But this is what it sounds like preceded by the compressor:

https://soundcloud.com/gratefuljon/track-4-wav-clip
You could consider purchasing a Boostron II from Mutron. They are designed to work in tangent with the Microtron for exactly the reasons you are citing. They offer a Stratoblaster (+ 2 other types of boost circuits) on one side and a compressor on the other. Using this pedal in front of the Microtron allows you to really exploit the quack (so to speak).

https://www.mu-tron.com/wp-content/uplo ... ide_v1.pdf

https://www.mu-tron.com/products/boostron-ii/
Last edited by wpmartin1979 on Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
 #169893  by AaronW
 
What pickups are in your guitar? 77 there were Dimarzio single coils, at least two different sets. The SDS1 middle and bridge are lower output 6k for the middle and 5.5k for the bridge, for the current production. I've got several SDS1's from the late 70's and they are slightly less output, 5.5k being the highest output.

Just a theory, but if you're using higher output pickups plus 10dB from the stratoblaster it's really overloading the MicroTron. Another theory I've had for awhile concerning newer pedals, the smd parts used on a lot of them can't take as much signal. If you look at an original MuTron III, it's got these big axial electrolytic capacitors, a big transformer. My MicroTron IV is all surface mount components. While they technically have similar values, I have a theory that if you're using a 47uF 35v electrolytic that's surface mount, size of a grain of rice, that it's not going to handle the same signal and power as a 47uF 35v axial electrolytic that's 1" long and 1/2 in diameter. Same with the giant transformer in the original MuTron.

Personally I don't think it's possible to use the exact same guitar setup as Jerry, with modern equivalents and expect the same sound. I own a MicroTronIV, it's nice but from memory it sounds different than the original MuTrons I've played. If it was me, I'd turn that Stratoblaster down.

Again, these are just all my own theory's, I build effects and have been a guitar tech for 20 years now, but I don't have an electrical engineering background to back up my thoughts, just my ears :smile:
 #169894  by Jon S.
 
AaronW wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:42 amPersonally I don't think it's possible to use the exact same guitar setup as Jerry, with modern equivalents and expect the same sound. I own a MicroTronIV, it's nice but from memory it sounds different than the original MuTrons I've played. If it was me, I'd turn that Stratoblaster down.

Again, these are just all my own theory's, I build effects and have been a guitar tech for 20 years now, but I don't have an electrical engineering background to back up my thoughts, just my ears :smile:
I call you and raise you: I don't think it's possible to use the exact same guitar setup as Jerry, with all of Jerry's own original components and expect the same sound.

Follow-up question for ya: If your MicroTron IV "nice," can you ID any other similar new pedal(s) by any builder(s) you've tried and deemed nicer? Thanks!
 #169897  by AaronW
 
Jon S. wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:54 am I call you and raise you: I don't think it's possible to use the exact same guitar setup as Jerry, with all of Jerry's own original components and expect the same sound.

Follow-up question for ya: If your MicroTron IV "nice," can you ID any other similar new pedal(s) by any builder(s) you've tried and deemed nicer? Thanks!
For sure, I've gotten to play through a few rigs of famous players and it never sounds like them. One of my favorite stories was a guy was a huge Clapton fan. Actually bought all the exact tour gear that Eric was using. He took his setup to a shop and was working with some of the guys, because he couldn't get the "sound". Just so happened Clapton stopped at the shop at one point while his gear was there. The guy got to talk to Eric and Eric said how everything looked like he used, settings seemed to be the same and then asked if he could play it to see if he noticed anything. Guess what happened when Clapton started playing? :biggrin:

My original setup in 2000 was a Boss PW-10 > TS9 > Boss DS1 > DOD 440 Envelope Filter. Since then I've used the 440, Ibanez Envelope Filter, two versions of the Proton, Original QTron's, new QTron's, Line6 MM4, M5/9/13, Xotic Robotalk and now the Micro Tron IV (and probably some others I'm forgetting).

About the only ones I didn't care for was the Proton's. I don't have an OBEL on any guitars, so I had a hard time getting those to trigger. I wouldn't say I've played anything "nicer" than the Micro Tron, but at the same time I wouldn't say the Micro Tron is nicer than any of the others. I bought the Micro Tron simply to free of space, and thought since MuTron is making them it'd be closest to the original. Prior I was using a newer QTron+. My favorites have been the DOD 440, the various Line6's I mentioned, QTron and Micro Tron. I'd personally be happy with the sound of any of those, but space wise the Micro Tron makes the most sense to me right now.
 #169905  by wpmartin1979
 
Image

The Analog Man has become a staple on my upstairs rig. I use the Microtron IV downstairs on the main rig. If I hit it with the Stratoblaster and the Tiger Buffer in the Boost of the Dead it produces a nice lush quack. However, the high end notes can kinda harsh without a compressor. I think the Microtron is just slightly better at producing a more consistent (less spikey) tone.
 #169918  by 8-6-71 for me
 
AaronW wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:46 am
Jon S. wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:54 am I call you and raise you: I don't think it's possible to use the exact same guitar setup as Jerry, with all of Jerry's own original components and expect the same sound.

Follow-up question for ya: If your MicroTron IV "nice," can you ID any other similar new pedal(s) by any builder(s) you've tried and deemed nicer? Thanks!
For sure, I've gotten to play through a few rigs of famous players and it never sounds like them. One of my favorite stories was a guy was a huge Clapton fan. Actually bought all the exact tour gear that Eric was using. He took his setup to a shop and was working with some of the guys, because he couldn't get the "sound". Just so happened Clapton stopped at the shop at one point while his gear was there. The guy got to talk to Eric and Eric said how everything looked like he used, settings seemed to be the same and then asked if he could play it to see if he noticed anything. Guess what happened when Clapton started playing? :biggrin:

My original setup in 2000 was a Boss PW-10 > TS9 > Boss DS1 > DOD 440 Envelope Filter. Since then I've used the 440, Ibanez Envelope Filter, two versions of the Proton, Original QTron's, new QTron's, Line6 MM4, M5/9/13, Xotic Robotalk and now the Micro Tron IV (and probably some others I'm forgetting).

About the only ones I didn't care for was the Proton's. I don't have an OBEL on any guitars, so I had a hard time getting those to trigger. I wouldn't say I've played anything "nicer" than the Micro Tron, but at the same time I wouldn't say the Micro Tron is nicer than any of the others. I bought the Micro Tron simply to free of space, and thought since MuTron is making them it'd be closest to the original. Prior I was using a newer QTron+. My favorites have been the DOD 440, the various Line6's I mentioned, QTron and Micro Tron. I'd personally be happy with the sound of any of those, but space wise the Micro Tron makes the most sense to me right now.
I heard this exact same story... directly from Lee Dickson, EC's guitar tech. :wink:
 #169919  by 8-6-71 for me
 
Jon S. wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:54 am
AaronW wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:42 amPersonally I don't think it's possible to use the exact same guitar setup as Jerry, with modern equivalents and expect the same sound. I own a MicroTronIV, it's nice but from memory it sounds different than the original MuTrons I've played. If it was me, I'd turn that Stratoblaster down.

Again, these are just all my own theory's, I build effects and have been a guitar tech for 20 years now, but I don't have an electrical engineering background to back up my thoughts, just my ears :smile:
I call you and raise you: I don't think it's possible to use the exact same guitar setup as Jerry, with all of Jerry's own original components and expect the same sound.

Follow-up question for ya: If your MicroTron IV "nice," can you ID any other similar new pedal(s) by any builder(s) you've tried and deemed nicer? Thanks!
I'm just sayin... if I had to sell every other pedal to keep an original mutron iii it would be worth it to me. Think about how relatively little JG used delay/phase/octave/(even wah... post hiatus) and the fact that the miii was there from 76 or 77 til the end in 95. It's the "k" in the equation; the constant. Clean sound, plus the distortion of whatever-era-you-prefer and the og miii and that covers 98% of what is on the tapes.
 #169920  by 8-6-71 for me
 
8-6-71 for me wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:29 pm
Jon S. wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:54 am
AaronW wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:42 amPersonally I don't think it's possible to use the exact same guitar setup as Jerry, with modern equivalents and expect the same sound. I own a MicroTronIV, it's nice but from memory it sounds different than the original MuTrons I've played. If it was me, I'd turn that Stratoblaster down.

Again, these are just all my own theory's, I build effects and have been a guitar tech for 20 years now, but I don't have an electrical engineering background to back up my thoughts, just my ears :smile:
I call you and raise you: I don't think it's possible to use the exact same guitar setup as Jerry, with all of Jerry's own original components and expect the same sound.

Follow-up question for ya: If your MicroTron IV "nice," can you ID any other similar new pedal(s) by any builder(s) you've tried and deemed nicer? Thanks!
I'm just sayin... if I had to sell every other pedal to keep an original mutron iii it would be worth it to me. Think about how relatively little JG used delay/phase/octave/(even wah... post hiatus) and the fact that the miii was there from 76 or 77 til the end. It's the "k" in the equation; the constant. Clean tone, plus the distortion of whatever-era-you-prefer, plus the og miii and that covers 98% of what is on the tapes.