#168379  by LazyLightning72
 Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:21 pm
Jon S. wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:04 am
May I add, not intending to snarky with the above, merely realistically practical.

If your gear isn't all the same as Jerry's and your setups, touch, and technique identical, too, the reality is you won't sound precisely like him anyway. And let's face it, no one had, has, or ever will have the exact same gear, setups, touch, and technique as he.

This is why, though it's sparked debate here in years past, I've always felt, and still do, two things. One, if your chops are good, if it sounds good and feels good, it is good. Two, in the end, be yourself - an original is always worth more than a copy and, after all, isn't this the example Jer himself gave us in how he lived his own life?

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I don’t take it as snarky at all.
I am not trying to be a Jerry clone, even if it was possible, I wouldn’t want to do that. There are some things I aim to try to emulate in my own playing, but there will only ever be one Jerry Garcia.

I’ve always thought it’s so very easy to read question/comments on any subject online, and not know the actual intent behind it. As I’m sure many others (perhaps yourself), have come to the same conclusion.

My intent, is pretty simple.
I want to have fun when I pick up my guitar. Sometimes it’s in the form of learning all the licks, solos, and chord changes, to a Dead song. Other times it’s to sit down and explore, and create something new, which is incredibly rewarding.

All that said, the times I’m playing Dead, I won’t lie, I want to have the gear that will get me as close as possible to the original.

I said all that to say, I agree with you 100%. Be original, because Jerry sure as heck was.

Anyhow, hope you and everyone had great weekends!
Thanks for the feedback as always!
Chris
 #168380  by LazyLightning72
 Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:50 pm
PurpleTrails wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:09 pm
If you're going the OD/distortion route you might take a listen to the fulltone OCD. Not a pedal Jerry used, but a real nice transparent OD that can get pretty gnarly if you turn it up. I have one stacked before a new-ish Dist+ on my board.

Or you can pick up a Boss OD. Jerry used the OD-2 in the '80s & '90s, which has been out of production for years, but the OD-3 sounds pretty good as well. You can generally pick up used Boss pedals for $50 or so, and they are built like tanks so it's not a bad thing to get used.

I wouldn't bother with a phaser or octave, as they weren't used all that much.
Would I be better off keeping the MXR Dist. + and just adding another to use with it, or just replace it? If so would It be a good idea to get a OD, to go with it, instead of another Dist.?
 #168381  by Jon S.
 Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:27 pm
Whatever you do, first, I'd recommend spending enough time with what you already have, tweaking and adjusting it in concert (double entendre intended) with the rest of your rig to truly know all its capabilities. That way, if and when you decide to augment it with new gear, you know exactly what it is you're seeking and why.

Actually, this approach could be helpful regarding most of the material objects in our lives.

This being said, if you're frankly simply in the mood for another pedal, well, who here hasn't been there, too. Image
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 #168382  by LazyLightning72
 Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:38 pm
Still along the same lines, I was curious about an attenuator or volume pedal.

I don’t know a lot about them, but from what I have seen and read, one of them may be something useful for me.

The last couple weeks, I’ve been playing a few afternoons, with the volume turned up much more than it is during my evening playing. Been loving the tone from the ‘65 Deluxe, at these increased volume levels. I mean it sounds great at like 3, which is where I typically keep it during the night when my wife’s sleeping. There is something magical that seems to happens when I start to crank it up.

I recently saw a comparison between a Bugera PS1 Passive 100-watt Power Attenuator and a Rivera RockCrusher Power Attenuator/Load Box.

There is a huge price difference, with the Bugera at $100 and the Rivera at $500.00 iirc. For the price, the Bugera sounded pretty good.

Can the same thing be accomplished with a volume pedal, and if so any suggestion on one?

If not I’d be willing to just get an attenuator, like the Bugera, or similar.
 #168383  by lbpesq
 Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:13 am
An attenuator allows you to crank a tube amp and potentially achieve overdriven tube distortion both in your preamp and power amp sections while still taming the overall volume.

A volume pedal placed after your guitar and before the amp will do nothing to overdrive tubes and, in fact, is arguably redundant with the OBEL.

A volume pedal placed in the effects loop (assuming your amp has one) will allow you to overdrive the preamp section while reducing the volume going to the power amp section. You may be able to achieve the tone you are chasing in this manner, and you may not - it is matter of personal taste.

I would definitely try the volume pedal in the effects loop first as volume pedals are far less expensive than a quality attenuator.

Bill, tgo
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 #168385  by Jon S.
 Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:46 am
I would try, before either a new pedal or attenuator (and they're radically different beasts, as @lbpesq correctly explains), learning to work your guitar's existing volume control with your pinky. I do this with all my guitars, even if (as with my Tele) it requires me first to flip the control plate or move a knob. We don't have keys in either of my bands. I call up a vibrato or rotary pedal model on my M13 and, together with working my guitars' volume controls for swells, am able to get nice keyboard-like chord tones. If you've never tried this before, give it a shot - you might like it.

In fact, on my Tele, I take it a step further. Having flipped the control plate, I put my pinky around the tone control and 3rd finger around the volume control and work swells with both simultaneously for those ultra-cool Bill Kirchen-style dieselbilly truck Doppler Effect tones.

Bill taught me this personally at the National Guitar Workshop's Hot Country Licks class in Nashville in '04. Then we caught up again on it in '11 when Bill and his Too Much Fun band with Johnny Castle on bass and Jack O'Dell on drums played my brother's wedding. Now that was awesome! I'll never forget how my sister-in-law's family said when the reception began, "That old guy? He'll never make it through the night," and then at the end, they picked their jaws up off of the dance floor.

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 #168386  by PurpleTrails
 Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:32 am
LazyLightning72 wrote:
PurpleTrails wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:09 pm
If you're going the OD/distortion route you might take a listen to the fulltone OCD. Not a pedal Jerry used, but a real nice transparent OD that can get pretty gnarly if you turn it up. I have one stacked before a new-ish Dist+ on my board.

Or you can pick up a Boss OD. Jerry used the OD-2 in the '80s & '90s, which has been out of production for years, but the OD-3 sounds pretty good as well. You can generally pick up used Boss pedals for $50 or so, and they are built like tanks so it's not a bad thing to get used.

I wouldn't bother with a phaser or octave, as they weren't used all that much.
Would I be better off keeping the MXR Dist. + and just adding another to use with it, or just replace it? If so would It be a good idea to get a OD, to go with it, instead of another Dist.?
Stacking dirt pedals gives you more tonal options. I generally have my OCD set to a mild overdrive sort of tone running into a Dist+ that is more cranked, then I have a preamp pedal after that which gives me more EQ options and a pretty massive 24 db of gain to hit the front end of my amp if needed. So I might tap the OCD for a lead segment, add the Dist+ to get a more distorted tone.

FWIW, the tone takes on more of the characteristics of the second pedal in the sequence than the first. For dead stuff I can use the preamp for space type stuff because it really can send a delay or other modulation pedal into outer space.

Also, Jerry definitely was stacking ODs in the '80s and beyond. It's not necessary to use more than one, but it does offer more options.
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 #168388  by TI4-1009
 Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:09 am
Jon S. wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:46 am
Then we caught up again on it in '11 when Bill and his Too Much Fun band with Johnny Castle on bass and Jack O'Dell on drums played my brother's wedding.
Bill Kirchen played your brother's wedding???!!!! :shock:
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 #168391  by wabisabied
 Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:41 pm
I know this is a thread about pedals, and I love my pedals, but the pic of Mr. Kirchen busking with a direct line from guitar to amp has reminded me that some times we might get in the way of what our guitar and amp are capable of by putting a bunch of stuff in between them. I independently reminded myself of this several months ago when I went direct with my strat into my TR while recording. I guess my point is to make best use of your guitar and amp, get them as dialed into what you like as possible, then start to color with the effects pedals. Even if you’ve already done this, I think it’s good to revisit from time-to-time and make sure that you’re working from a good foundation.
 #168398  by lbpesq
 Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:02 pm
TI4-1009 wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:09 am
Jon S. wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:46 am
Then we caught up again on it in '11 when Bill and his Too Much Fun band with Johnny Castle on bass and Jack O'Dell on drums played my brother's wedding.
Bill Kirchen played your brother's wedding???!!!! :shock:


When we were planning our wedding in 2001, I called a friend about getting his band to play. At the time , unbeknownst to me, he was on tour with JGB and was literally riding on the bus when I called. He asked Melvin Seals if he wanted to play my wedding and we wound up with JGB as our wedding band!

Now to bring this thread back on track, you are getting a bunch of good advice here. Just be sure to spend sufficient time exploring each of your options. GAS has gotten the best of most of us at one time or another!

Bill, tgo
 #168406  by nuthatchwinters
 Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:24 am
Hello L.L.72. welcome. I have no experience with any pedal boards so can't comment but can definitely recommend the Q+, which I think you said you already have, and the boss octave3, and boss od1 . I think I get some fairly good tones out of em and if you want to hear for yourself you can youtube "feel like a stranger by michael Kearns" to get a listen. Octave and Q+ for the verses, Q+ alone for a little bit in the middle, and then the boss od at the end. I am happy with these pedals! Thanks, MK
Last edited by nuthatchwinters on Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 #168409  by LazyLightning72
 Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:21 pm
nuthatchwinters wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:24 am
Hello L.L.72. welcome. I have no experience with any pedal boards so can't comment but can definitely recommend the Q+, which I think you said you already have, and the boss octave3, and boss od3 . I think I get some fairly good tones out of em and if you want to hear for yourself you can youtube "feel like a stranger by michael Kearns" to get a listen. Octave and Q+ for the verses, Q+ alone for a little bit in the middle, and then the boss od at the end. I am happy with these pedals! Thanks, MK
Man, very nicely done!
You really have that dialed in, not to mention how well you played it.

I’ll have to check out more of you videos, and thanks for the input.
 #168410  by nuthatchwinters
 Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:47 pm
Thankyou lazy lightning. I also have the MXR digital delay which i like. And as I think you've discovered there's alot of guys on here with alot of helpful advice on just about every topic you throw out there. I know I've learned alot. Good luck! MK
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