#164041  by Seamus603
 Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:17 pm
Hi,

First post, looking for a recommendation- I've been playing my Jimmie Vaughan Strat and Fender BJ iii Tweed jamming in the basement and with a friend or two-all stock at the moment- looking for a reasonably priced multifx board to get me a little closer to that "Jerry Tone"-the Boss ME-80 grabs me-any suggestions?

Thanks,
Jim
Manchester, NH
 #164042  by SellaV93
 Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:49 pm
I have one of those ME-80's heh. Never turned it on though. Was a gift that kinda missed the mark. The power supply has got to be around here somewheres. You're at a pretty good starting point to me. So far as the jr tweed & strat. I had two of those tweeds, regret selling them and kinda want the next one I see at a good price. I never modded mine. There are modding kits around online. A lot of folks around here seem to like them for combo amp Jer sounds. I would be considering dropping a E or K120 in there. I only used the stock speaker a handful of times. Always preferred a JBL with those blues jrs. The tone stack has the 22's, same as Jers twin (from what i hear/read) so that part is taken care of. There's got to be a great way to mod them closer to a blackface circuit. Someone around here has probably figured that out already...Personally, i'd grab a single coil with alnico V's at around 5.6-5.8k resistance and use that as a middle pickup. Fender has nice options. Or get a super 2(s) and split it. Maybe avoid the ME-80. I don't believe it has an envelope filter, and the distortion sounds are probably not the best thing to be using with your otherwise nice starter rig. It seemed to be better at first for me to establish a really nice clean tone through good pickups, preamp, speaker, buffer (Wald) etc. I'm still putting together the Jerry FX stuff because i was so worried about my clean signal being the best it could be.
Last edited by SellaV93 on Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 #164046  by RiseandFall
 Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:01 am
There is no multi FX board that will get you close to Jerry.
I fully agree about dropping a K-120 or a D-120 or E-120 in the Blues Jr. That is the biggest, fastest, cheapest thing you can do to head in the right direction. It is precisely what I did when I first started trying to capture Jerry as well.
Push the fat switch on, kill all your bass on the amp and max out your treble. Keep the gain structure as clean as possible. Control the highs with the tone knob on the guitar. Run the reverb hotter than you think it should be.
Work on your touch and dynamics.
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 #164047  by Jon S.
 Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:48 am
Seamus603 wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:17 pm
Hi,

First post, looking for a recommendation- I've been playing my Jimmie Vaughan Strat and Fender BJ iii Tweed jamming in the basement and with a friend or two-all stock at the moment- looking for a reasonably priced multifx board to get me a little closer to that "Jerry Tone"-the Boss ME-80 grabs me-any suggestions?

Thanks,
Jim
Manchester, NH
Hi, Jim. Welcome to RUKIND.

You asked "for a reasonably priced multifx board to get me a little closer to that "Jerry Tone."

I'm going to answer the question you've actually asked, not a different one I might prefer or imagine.

Start with a bit of research into the pedals Jerry actually used. There's been so much discussion of this topic here over the years - the Search function is your friend. Then research and demo your multi-FX pedal choices for ones that either directly model those specific pedals or can get tones similar enough to them for you to feel that they can get you where you want to be.

This will work to get you "a little closer" to what you're seeking.

Myself, I like my years old Line 6 M13 but were I buying today I'd check out the HX Effects.

P.S./EDIT: The cheap multi-effect units may well be a waste of time (I wouldn't know, I've never bought or used one of the cheap ones). Some of the better multi-effects units available today, in contrast, are pretty amazing for what they deliver in such compact packages. Also relevant to your decisionmaking will be whether you need a combination of effects suitable for covering Jerry only, or require or prefer greater versatility. Finally, understand that the folks who post here range from slavish obsession with reproducing Jerry's gear as closely as possible to enjoying his tone and music on our own terms. There is nothing "wrong" per se with chasing the dragon obsessively, nor with following, for example, Kimock's advice in my own signature line at very bottom of this post. The important thing is to know and support yourself.
Last edited by Jon S. on Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:41 am, edited 5 times in total.
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 #164048  by TeeJay
 Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:10 am
I found the cheap multi FX boards to be a waste of time. If you shop around most of the awesome Jerry effects can be found pretty cheap excluding the envelope filter. Boss OC2, Boss OD, MXR Dist+, Phase 100, Boss DD3 or a MXR Carbon Copy delay. Just take your time and find some deals used and before you know it you'll have a fantastic effects chain that you can use forever. Your strat and BJ will love you for it.
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 #164049  by waldo041
 Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:20 am
Jerry had many different tones all of which started with him, then his basic rig only( guitar, preamp/amp, speakers) and lastly for certain colors within songs he used effects. Effect pedals are NOT a way to "inch closer" to a Jerry Tone. It is a good way to fake or think you are close, or the notion can be used for certain songs to help the vibe in a coverband cover a GD/JGB song or two. In that regard, the ME-80 falls short with no Envelope Filter. But the reality is there is no simple box you can turn the knobs on, too include a kemper or axefx that will give you an authentic Jerry tone. That all said, with the correct hands any rig can sound close to the casual listener. Jerry sounded like Jerry on almost everything he played.

Neither of these are his known stage "rigs". But they are both "inched closer" to it in comparison to some box on the floor.

Here is Jerry Garcia with NO EFFECTS .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkL_YeznFsQ

Here he is with just a simple Strat like guitar into, i think , a Twin. NO EFFECTS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4p1zBuqYDk

Get close to that tone first, then move to the effects! Just my opinion.

That all said, as stated, you need to use that search function here at RuKind and look at and listen to the samples those giving advice have to share. This will help you form your own opinion of the advice given. DO NOT just blindly listen to anyone here without researching them and their tones or else you WILL waste money along the way. Everybody has an opinion, and is entitled to it, however some just stink worse than others.

YMMV

~waldo
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 #164053  by TeeJay
 Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:49 am
After thinking
P.S./EDIT: The cheap multi-effect units may well be a waste of time
After thinking about that... if you are jamming and having fun with your buddies its not a waste. And I dont have any experience with the boss digital multi stuff. The ones I had were Peavey and a line6 thing that was just dreadful. And that was a decade ago.

BTW waldo make a great point above about jerry TONE.
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 #164056  by strumminsix
 Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:24 pm
waldo041 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:20 am
Here is Jerry Garcia with NO EFFECTS .

Get close to that tone first, then move to the effects! Just my opinion.

use that search function here at RuKind and look at and listen to the samples those giving advice have to share.
Very good advice given. Jerry's main tone was a beautiful clean and all in the hands. Do you have that?

When you search, look up Vic aka playindead who uses an AXE ULTRA (I think) and IMO is one person who's got a really good JG tone all digitally. Lower end modelers do not cut it and give me ear fatigue.
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 #164067  by playingdead
 Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:49 am
These days I'm using a Fractal AX8 floorboard, direct to FOH, nothing else but the guitar and cable. But thanks for the kind words.

I just want to say, I have a tremendous amount of respect and appreciation for what Mike has done in terms of research and sharing knowledge, and to my ears, his Maestro amp through a Mac and E-120s is as close as you can get to "just exactly perfect."

But at my advanced age, I don't want to haul around a couple of hundred pounds of gear so my little 6 pound AX8 floorboard is "close enough to pretend."

There's something to be said here about nuances. I do believe a lot of the tone comes from your fingers, your approach, your technique. That's maybe half of the ballgame right there. I had a "senior moment" last weekend, and actually freaking *forgot* to put my Tiger guitar in the car and didn't realize it until I got to the gig. Too late to turn around. Fortunately, I did have my backup guitar, a Scott Walker Special. it has all the "wrong" elements to it, really ... maple top, chambered rosewood back, neck through, Brazilian rosewood fingerboard. It does have a Super II in the middle (permanently coil tapped), but it has a hybrid buffer/booster that Scott built instead of the gold-standard Wald buffer I have in my Tiger guitar, and the rest of the electronics are completely different.

But it still sounds fine in the context of the band, which is what I have always gone for, because that's when I am playing Grateful Dead music and I gladly make the tradeoff of less gear, consistency to the house sound and hearing myself better on stage without splitting my eardrums.

This is about 30 seconds of Lost Sailor.



Trust me, if I was playing arenas and had a 275 pound roadie carrying my gear, I'd have a Maestro head, 2300, the pedals, racks, cables, etc. And I'd show up 10 minutes before showtime. too. But I'd still keep the AX8 as a backup rig.

That being said, I don't think the ME-80 is going to get you there. But a Twin, a couple of specific pedals (overdrive and envelope), JBLs and some work on your touch will get you close enough. (To pretend.)
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 #164133  by Seamus603
 Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:40 pm
SellaV93, Riseandfall, Jon S., TeeJay, Waldo, strumminsix, playingdead,

Thanks for the welcomes and for taking the time to share your knowledge - I've decided to hold off on the fx for now, and concentrate on my playing(OK, maybe some new pickups and a stratoblaster and I've started looking for a JBL)

Jim
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 #164135  by kurt eye
 Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:51 am
I think people are correct in throwing cold water on your inquiry about a multi effects pedal for jerry tone. That being said don't feel relegated to the woodshed for 10 years with no effects until you have perfected Jerry's playing style. In addition to the JBL, start using an Adamas or similar heavy pick if you aren't already doing so. The response of the JBL with a heavy pick attack on the low strings gets you that bullfrog burp sound .

Most of Jerry's effects can be found pretty cheaply on Ebay. The envelope filter will be the most expensive pedal with others generally in the $50 to $100 range. In order of importance I'd get a looper for jamming then a distortion pedal, envelope filter and delay pedal. I only use a phaser, octave and wah once in a while.


Here's a thread where people opine on the relative importance of gear.

https://www.rukind.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... amas+picks
 #164138  by SellaV93
 Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:09 am
kurt eye wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:51 am
I think people are correct in throwing cold water on your inquiry about a multi effects pedal for jerry tone. That being said don't feel relegated to the woodshed for 10 years with no effects until you have perfected Jerry's playing style. In addition to the JBL, start using an Adamas or similar heavy pick if you aren't already doing so. The response of the JBL with a heavy pick attack on the low strings gets you that bullfrog burp sound .

Most of Jerry's effects can be found pretty cheaply on Ebay. The envelope filter will be the most expensive pedal with others generally in the $50 to $100 range. In order of importance I'd get a looper for jamming then a distortion pedal, envelope filter and delay pedal. I only use a phaser, octave and wah once in a while.


Here's a thread where people opine on the relative importance of gear.

https://www.rukind.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... amas+picks
Couldn't be more spot on with the pedal advice.
 #164144  by PaulJay
 Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:31 pm
Sorry to veer of track for a second. I want to comment on Vic’s video.
I checked out the other two videos from this show too. I just want to say that the Scott Walker guitar sounds fantastic. It has a very pleasing
tone to the ear. Not too bright, but still close to “the Tone” we are looking for. If you couln’t Use your Tiger for any reason, don’t worry
The Walker fills in just fine.
Just to add my opinion on the original topic. I would stay away from
Boss effect processors, I feel they are too sterile sounding and too many parameters to fuss with. Start with an overdrive and envelope pedal and you will be happy.
 #164148  by kurt eye
 Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:05 am
Acquiring new gear is part of the fun. Over the span of a few years I went from a makeshift yamaha sg and line 6 spider amp to a decent jerry rig and guitar with numerous steps inbetween.. And I bought myself a nice acoustic too. With nothing left to search for on Ebay or Reverb or Craigslist, my life is lacking in purpose.... :lol:
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 #164149  by czyfingers
 Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:33 am
I have a story similar to Vic's that I think is very relevant...I recently went to a gig and forgot not my main guitar...but my pedal board! My first thought was...shit I'm screwed. But what could I do? The show must go on right? So I informed my band mates and sure it took Shakedown or Estimated off the list of possibilities, but I got by just fine with the rest of my rig....Wolf replica>SMS>MC50>JBL. I did get a hold of a Boss distortion pedal someone had laying around and that was a big help for a little kick when needed, but the point of it all is I realized 10 fold what I already knew...the most important things in playing Jerry style are having the correct base clean tone and the gear to help create it and that your biggest tools are your hands and the heart and soul you put into your playing. I feel that the majority of Jerry's most beautiful playing was effects OFF. I actually enjoyed the simplicity of that night!
So to the OP...practice up and think about the main gear before effects...I used to have a Blues Jr and it was ok but I never really got a satisfying Jerry tone out of it...even with a JBL. I tried but it just has it's limitations that you can't really totally overcome. In addition to the rig I mentioned above, I also have a Deluxe Reverb Reissue. If you aren't ready to go full tilt with the SMS, FYD, Twin MAC etc., IMHO the DRRI does the Jerry thing pretty well and even if you upgrade at some point down the road, I feel the Deluxe is one of the most versatile, useful amps ever made for any style of music you're playing. I'd never get rid of mine. Some will say it lacks the clean headroom and to a degree it does. But so does a Blues Jr and even more so. You have to consider where are you playing and how loud do you need to be? If it's in your house practicing, you're set. If it's jamming with friends your set. If it's the average small gig you're set. If it's a bigger gig, you mic it and you're set. There are also a couple simple mods you can do to the Deluxe that will keep it a little cleaner as you turn up too. You can PM me if you ever went that route and want that info. without searching endlessly.
Those amps are available in droves used at reasonable prices. Don't mean to further complicate things for you, but it's just another option and thinking way back to when I was in your position, I wish someone told me this and I would've skipped the Blues Jr.
Good luck man!
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