#161641  by tommybo
 Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:04 am
I can't afford a McIntosh - growing tired of the carvin dcm200l - are there any other power amps out there for guitar ? I use the sms preamp (which I am never retiring) any ideas ? suggestions ? thanks, peace
 #161642  by Jon S.
 Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:26 am
Why specifically are you growing tired of the DCM200L? Many here find it to be a good match with an SMS (i.e., if you can't afford $5-600 for an MC50, I'm not sure what you're expecting to find that's so much superior to your DCM200L at significantly less cost than it).
 #161644  by tcsned
 Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:15 pm
I'd check out a Mosvalve mv-962. I use one for a backup for my Mac MC2100 and it's great. Not as nice as the Mac but I got mine for $135 or possibly $125. It's plenty loud and plays well with the SMS. I've only ever used one side of mine and my band tends to play pretty effing loud.
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 #161648  by Jon S.
 Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:41 am
In that vein, for several years, I used a Rocktron Velocity 300. Sounded decent but no better to me than the DCM200L and the latter was far lighter in weight so I sold the Rocktron and kept the Carvin.
 #161649  by waldo041
 Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:23 am
Nothing compares to a McIntosh. NOTHING!!! They were designed to emulate Tube Power. They are simple in design and as long as parts are available, they will be around for a long time. A qualified tech would find a McIntosh like we use for JG power more easy to work on then any of the other recommended amps. I am actually surprised that the people here with all their advice (and some with no idea what good Jerry tone really is) have not made the comparison as to just why the MosVALVE 962 amp gets the thumbs up over class d power. But hey, if the GearPage's "GD/JG Guru" endorses it i am sure it will make it's way here either copied and pasted or regurgitated in some form eventually with really no empirical proof to support their claims. Just an amateur opinion.

If you are after some type of gear just listen to what the guy giving advice tone and chops sound like before taking it. If you dig what they are doing and you hear the tones you are after , then try what they are using. That should give you more perspective in your decision. I know Mac's may be pricy, but if you save for it now you will save money in the long run chasing amp to amp. Many here started down this path of buying a ton of cheap gear , myself included. An Authentic sounding JG Rig is not cheap nor is it light. Again, most of the guys here have some sort of sample of what their JG tone sounds like. If it is not close, why would you take their advice?

Also, just to note Jerry never used an overdrive always on! His twin/Mac/jbl's did it without the need for it. So if you have to do that, then you do not have the correct pieces of gear.

But what do i know? Your mileage may vary, just trying to keep it real!

~waldo
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 #161650  by tommybo
 Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:40 am
thank you Waldo for the voice of reason - you are right - I cant tell you how much money ive spent over the years - trying this ,trying that, never being happy - I could have bought a McIntosh and saved a lot of money and frustration - thanks for showing this old dog some sane reasoning - trying to be cheap turns out to be a very exspensive venture - lesson learned - thank you -Peace
 #161651  by Jon S.
 Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:33 pm
LOL! And unworthy of further response.
 #161653  by strumminsix
 Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:03 pm
Imma say this: if you're doing the JG tribute guitar, OBEL, racked up switched/ bypassed effects, Sarno Preamp and JBLS... then do the Mac.

Other amps sound good. But there's something about a Mac. IMO the Tubeworks is an awesome sounding guitar poweramp and pairs nicely with the SMS. Can it get into JG ballpark, yes. Is it the best tool for the job, not at all.
 #161655  by Jon S.
 Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:42 pm
It may bear repeating that the OP began his question by stating that he can't presently afford a McI. I think it also bears repeating that the only other information he gave us on his rig is that he already owns an SMS preamp. Unless I've missed it, strumminsix is the first person in this thread to qualify his response in the context of a full rig. This is relevant because if the OP is currently running his SMS-DCM200L into, for example, a Fender Gold Label speaker, he may be better off prioritizing his limited resources on first picking up a JBL, Tone Tubby Purple Haze, Weber Cali, etc., depending on his personal preferences), instead of focusing immediately on a replacement power amp.
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 #161656  by hippieguy1954
 Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:46 am
Jon S. wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:42 pm
It may bear repeating that the OP began his question by stating that he can't presently afford a McI. I think it also bears repeating that the only other information he gave us on his rig is that he already owns an SMS preamp. Unless I've missed it, strumminsix is the first person in this thread to qualify his response in the context of a full rig. This is relevant because if the OP is currently running his SMS-DCM200L into, for example, a Fender Gold Label speaker, he may be better off prioritizing his limited resources on first picking up a JBL, Tone Tubby Purple Haze, Weber Cali, etc., depending on his personal preferences), instead of focusing immediately on a replacement power amp.

I bet the OP has JBL's or he would have mentioned speakers also. Lets see!
I've tried a lot of different power amps. The best advice given is saving for a McIntosh!
 #161657  by Jon S.
 Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:35 am
Looking forward to your response on what speakers you're using now, tommybo (I believe I've seen other posts by you asking questions about JBLs and possible alternatives but don't recall what you're actually using now).

Also, a couple of months ago, I recall you asked about setting the relative volumes of your SMS and DCM200L. You're not still running your power amp full on and adjusting the volume with your preamp, correct? (If you are, that may be why you're tired of your power amp.)

Regardless, most of us here are legitimately trying to be as helpful as possible. It would be a boring world where everyone thinks and plays identically. Best of luck finding what you're seeking within your budget.
 #161665  by tommybo
 Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:04 pm
Jon S- I don't understand your hostility- it was only a question - my speakers are commonwealths and yes I still run my amp very hot - I like the extra headroom on my volume control - sometimes I get bored and like to change things up a little, the rig sounds a little sterile sometimes - I use both channels of the Carvin - each channel feeding a seperate speaker - anyways like I said - its only a question ! thanks to Mike and everyone who offered a suggestion - thanks ! peace
 #161667  by waldo041
 Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:27 pm
These people sure look like they are having a "Boring" time with him thinking and playing so "Identically". Especially with that Heavy and Loud Ass Mc2100 he uses.



The OP took the advice already given by some here and is not happy with what he hears. He was hoping for a cheaper solution, because he was already steered in that direction thinking it is achievable. It is not possible, but that same amateur opinion wants to now lay the reason why the OP did not get the results promised on his speakers. Problem is, hopefully, he has not been steered in the direction of some expensive ass colored Tele Tubbies or Weber Calis (Ceramic or Alnico) because they are not the answer either! Their spec's in no way compare to a JBL D/K or E and they will not throw like them either, but are endorsed as such. Side By Side they do not compare, that is the truth from someone who has had them both. The D's should really be used in an "Alembic" modded Twin Reverb combo like his early day. He grew out of those shoes real quick though and moved to K's well before the Wall of Sound.

It is worth repeating, An Authentic sounding JG Rig is not cheap nor is it light (his guitars were heavy and so were his strings and picks!). Most of the guys/gals here have some sort of sample of what their JG tone sounds like. If it is not close, why would you take their advice?

~waldo
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 #161669  by Jon S.
 Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:54 am
tommybo wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:04 pm
Jon S
Again, tommybo, good luck with your search.
Last edited by Jon S. on Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
 #161670  by Jon S.
 Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:50 am
We should be comfortable tolerating and considering a range of views on these topics without unduly personalizing the discussion. I don't profess to know everything nor do I insist anyone do or think as I do. And since this is a Dead gear forum, all of us, to a more or less extent, are "chasing the dragon." I do, though, sometimes present an alternative viewpoint here on how to approach covering the Dead.

My take is often this. If we truly want to respect Jerry and his heritage, let's be inspired as much by his overall approach to music as by the physical things he used to make it. Just as we love and cover Jerry's music, Jerry loved and covered other artists' music. There are so many great examples.* In doing so, when, if ever, do you recall Jerry striving to slavishly copy the gear and tones of those who inspired him? In Jerry's own words, "There are more good guitar players alive today than have ever existed. I welcome it. It’s been a long time getting here, the legitimizing of the electric guitar. Everybody has something to say. I really feel that you can’t avoid finding your own voice if you keep playing. You have a voice, whether you recognize it or not."** Did Jerry strive to ape Chuck Berry's tone or cadence when he covered Chuck? What do you think he'd advise you were he still with us and you told him you were hell-bent on copying him exactly? Might it be, "You have a voice, whether you recognize it or not." This is a valid viewpoint, too.

So my personal approach - what I apply for myself in my own "amateur" musical pursuits and sometimes share for consideration with others without trying to dictate anything to anyone - is simple. Learn about how Jerry got his tone, and then be comfortable enough in your own skin to apply as much or as little of it as your preferences and budgets allow. Never be afraid, unwilling, or intimidated by "what Jerry did," "what most people think," "what professionals advise," etc. to do the unexpected or to differ.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_G ... r_versions ; https://www.setlist.fm/stats/covers/jer ... 6adbb.html

** https://www.guitarplayer.com/miscellane ... tober-1978

P.S. to you know who: Unbroken chains aren't always the best. Your skills and experience can speak for themselves in our discussions here, if you'll be confident enough to let them.