#161586  by Pellecaster
 Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:50 pm
Hi all, I’m new here but I’ve been reading a lot lately.

I have a 20w 1x12 combo without speaker coming from Dan over at Fyd amps and I’d like to hear everyone’s thoughts on speakers to look at.

I know jbls are the logical choice but which one would be best, d,e, k?

I was also checking out the Beyma liberty 12”, the Tone Tubby purple haze and now the rosebud, and the Weber California.

I would love to hear any insights in regard to power handling and sound for at home or small bar gig volumes. I’ll be using a pedalboard for any overdriven sounds and I have yet to get a guitar with an obel setup.

Thanks in advance,
Dave
 #161587  by Gr8fulCadi
 Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:48 pm
At 20watts, what type of power section is the amp running? 6v6 or 6L6?
If your going for spot on Jerry tone, while the speaker is very important, so is the power section imo (and pre, Guitar etc) So I’m sure all the speaker selections above would be pretty close and sound pretty good. If you were running an FYD into a Mac and wanted as close as possible then the D, K or E (Beyma included) would be my vote. If you want used or reconed, JBL’s. If you want new, Beyma’s.

I have the orange framed D’s and Beyma’s. Both are awesome with a Maestro Twin, Shakedown Super reverb and even my 25 watt tweed 5e3p. I also have a 100 watt Weber Michigan 4ohm with aluminum dome so I can correctly run a 1x12 with my twin and it sounds awesome. Not totally Jerry but very musical and pretty darn close.

The purple haze would probably give you some speaker break up while the JBL’s would not so that should be considered too. Good luck and welcome!!
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 #161588  by Pellecaster
 Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:05 pm
Great info thanks!

It’s a 6v6

At this point I’d like to just get in the ballpark. I’m seriously considering the beyma. I have a guitar that already sounds pretty close when going through my other amps and I’m considering modding it with a buffer.
 #161589  by Pellecaster
 Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:14 pm
ImageAn old Warrior guitar from the 90’s, it’s got coil taps and a piezo bridge and stereo out jack. The Seymour Duncan’s sound pretty good, but I know the dimarzios are the choice for authenticity. Can I get by with only two pickups and wire a buffer in? Stratoblaster or obel install?
 #161595  by strumminsix
 Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:50 am
I'm more old school in this thinking than others. To me there is a beauty when the right size speaker is paired to an amp. That's why Jerry sounded good. Not cuz he had JBL E120s but that he was pushing them to the point of sounding magical!

That said my rec would be looking at lower wattage speakers say 50 watters. JBL D120 would be nice, Weber NeoMag is a great choice but I don't see them on their site likely custom order, Weber Cali would another choice. Either with aluminum dome.
 #161596  by Gr8fulCadi
 Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:29 am
I agree about sizing up the speaker with power handling but then the sensitivity should be considered too if one is thinking about loudness at small bars and home. I don’t think it’s an old school mentality, Its more or less if you want the speaker stressed or if you want the grit and grind coming from the amp only.

I have an evm 12L that sounds great with anything thrown at it, from 25 watts to 100 watts. My Beyma’s sound just as good and loud due to the sensitivity with my twin or tweed.
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 #161597  by SarnoMusicSolutions
 Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:56 am
I find this to be a real dilemma actually. While the JBL 12" is the absolutely central and consistent factor in jerry's guitar tone for his entire career, they just don't behave like Jerry used them when you're down at the 22 watt range like with a Deluxe. Part of what makes great tone is the speaker being pushed to or near its power limits. When they are pushed and stressed, they naturally begin to compress and subtly distort and the result is a smoothing, a removal of harshness and ice-picky-ness. I love the K120 or D120F in a Deluxe, and it really does an ok Jerry, but as soon as you drive it hard, you'll hear plenty of 6V6 distortion and thinning, but you won't get that fat, full, smooth, warmth that the JBL is capable of at higher power. Just listen to John Mayer's recent use of a JBL loaded Deluxe. When he pushed that setup, it gets really thin and small sounding, dirty and kinda wimpy. But Jerry's notes were always thick, full, rich, fat, smooth, and sparkly.

So no matter how you slice it, at lower power like that, the JBL won't quite sing to its potential. It will sound good as a perfectly clean tone, but when you try to get rockin or take a solo with a band, it won't quite deliver. Then that has one considering other speaker options, lower power speakers like the Purple Haze or Rosebud, etc. But those won't exactly nail the Jerry-JBL tone either. But they will have the advantage of subtle compression and smoothing. You can get semi close if the guitar and pickup are right and you have a Waldo buffer in the guitar and if you use the right pick and have the right technique. You can get a great sound that's in the ballpark. But generally I'm growing more and more convinced that the JBL driven too lightly just doesn't quite bring it. It takes power and loudness to make them sing, and Jerry was an absolute master of the 12" JBL's, knew how to ride them right at the edge, and even he would pop them often.

Here's an example for perspective on this. Listen to JGB Live at the Keystone 74. That is Jerry thru two JBL loaded twins stacked sideways as a vertical array of 4 speakers. If the Twin is 80 watts, then each JBL is getting 40 watts. Even at 40 watts per speaker, that super sweet tone he got there is still not as fat and full as his GD tone we know. You're hearing 6L6's distorting and those JBL's, likely D120F's, are still running pretty clean, just barely beginning to stress and smooth out. I love that Keystone tone, so sweet and juicy, but it's arguably thinner and dirtier than his classic tone many of us seek.

Brad
 #161598  by Pellecaster
 Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:29 am
Thank you everyone for being so generous with your time in replying to my question. 😊

I hear what y’all are saying about power and pushing the speaker correctly, this is always my dilemma it seems, and for now I think I’m going to go with a Weber or tone tubby and hold off on the jbl types until I decide to go full on rack. I’m hoping with the right pedals, pickups and buffer to get in the ballpark and than work my way up to the real deal 😎

Thanks Brad, I was just listening to keystone 74 and I see what you mean about the thinner sound, it is exactly what I was afraid of happening if I went with a jbl, I’ve been playing around with Jerry settings on stock fenders and while I can usually get a nice clean sound from a DR but as soon as I go to a pedal for some dirt or drive it becomes uncomfortable. I’m guessing a tt purple haze may be the perfect speaker for this amp although I haven’t heard much from the rosebud online yet...

Thanks again everyone 😊
Dave
 #161605  by strumminsix
 Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:51 pm
I'll continue on my sacrilege trend... Everyone wants to go full rack. And it looks badass. I had one of the best live music racks out of everyone I knew in my area. But, most bars are too small to open up that volume and most live music rooms have a great PA and engineer and they want a quieter stage. My opinion: build a great 22W deluxe reverb type amp. Play around with different speakers and tubes and volumes. Get a buffer to help drive your signal better across distance and pedals. And I bet you'll find a great amp that you can use in any arrangement.

My electric gigging is thru an Dr Z Maz 8. That's 8 watts of single ended EL84. Not a Jerry tone but my tone is clean with pedals to layer and it's perfect.
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 #161606  by Pellecaster
 Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:47 pm
I agree strumminsix, my main amp for the last 10 years has el84’s always used as a clean platform, I wish I could play somewhere a full rack system could be utilized but the reality is most places I’ve gigged set some sort of limit on volume whether because of patrons or neighbors or outdoor sound curfew.

That being said I still gas for cool pedals amps and guitars. Who among us doesn’t? 😎. I still keep track of all the new envelope filters just to get a little closer to the sound...

Dave
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 #161607  by Gr8fulCadi
 Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:34 pm
SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:56 am
Brad and Strumminsix, great points above on the 22 watts, 6v6’s and JBL’s. In the 30 years I’ve been playing, I’ve never had anything other than a 6L6 amp so I’m not too familiar with a DR with a JBL. Definitely familiar with JBL tho. Honestly none of my amps sound thin through my Beyma’s, but even my 25 watt amp is 6L6 based and a tweed, so, completely different from a DR. Glad the OP got some good info!!