When it doesn't fit anywhere else
 #90243  by phpbb
 Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:47 pm
“I haven’t really got much interest in them. They sound just like the other bands out there doing it. What do you call those bands that copy other bands—” Kreutzmann said. “Anyways, I don’t feel they’re doing anything really new with their music.”

Kreutzmann went on to say, “The saddest thing is that they (Furthur) hired a guitar player that’s not Warren Haynes. It’s too bad. They should have hired a great solo guitar player.”

http://www.jambands.com/news/2010/12/02 ... at-furthur
 #90245  by dleonard
 Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:04 pm
phpbb wrote:The saddest thing is that they (Furthur) hired a guitar player that’s not Warren Haynes
WTF? I could see someone saying that about the Allmans. There has to be bad blood between BK and the rest of them.

I haven't seen them, but don't the Rhythym Devils do mostly dead stuff?
 #90247  by DeadlyHeptet
 Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:30 pm
Amen, Bill (except I don't love Warren's playing either). When Jerry passed, I thought no one could replace him. Now with a number of guitar players having come through the band, I stand by that even more. I am not talking about playing him note for note; I am talking about the spirit in which the music was intended. My thought was that could they continue to make new, experimental music (granted, their best days were behind them in that respect, but I digress). Maybe replace Jerry with an avante sax player like, Greg Osby or David Murray and go off onto something new. As a second thought, Nels Cline (I am not talking about his tenure with Wilco as an example. He had a 30 year career previous playing incredible music) would have been an interesting match for a guitar player who could really stretch them or maybe Henry Kaiser, both of whom know the Dead material. I thought the results would have been terrific.

Unfortunately, not one of the guitar players that have sat in the seat since (except maybe Kimock) could pull it off. No one could really expect them to, most all of them have lacked and lacked badly IMO.

I always considered some of the tenets of the Grateful Dead to be "be yourself", "be original" and “move forward”. Yet now, the current touring scene is a disappointment to me as it seems the most revered are the ones that can copy Jerry and the boys note for note and be not at all original. I believe Bill K. had also previously made some statement about the conundrum of talented musicians aping others instead of finding their own voice. I understand the influence of a musician on an aspiring player, but aping someone is never what I thought playing music is about. Yes, they covered a lot of tunes by people they respected, but did the tunes in their own style. What I am talking about here isn’t that.

They themselves have for years now become at best a cover band and at worst a parody of themselves. Mind you, I love the guys, been with them a very long time, but I sit and watch the scene as an interested bystander rather than a concert going participant anymore.

The idea is to move forward; again, at least I thought it was. I was lucky enough (in retrospect very lucky) to have seen them on good nights in 1971-1974 (with 1972 being the apex) and to this day, I have never seen a band come close, certainly not any rendition without Jerry, any cover band or any other band for that matter (Well, maybe Crimson or Mahavishnu on some level, but that’s quite different). I somehow don't understand why people are interested in the current and recent bands. "I didn't get to see them back in the day" is one response. Yea, I didn't get to see the Beatles, but searching out Beatles cover bands in an attempt to replicate an experience that can not be replicated isn’t really going to do it.

So, don’t kill me. I am as much a fan as anyone, but I think the essence of what at least I thought they were really about is ignored (not by all, there are many who agree with me) and in its place is some “Golden Calf”.
 #90248  by Tennessee Jedi
 Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:33 pm
“I haven’t really got much interest in them. They sound just like the other bands out there doing it. What do you call those bands that copy other bands—” Kreutzmann said. “Anyways, I don’t feel they’re doing anything really new with their music.”
Maybe you are right Bill but your band is weak sauce compared to Furthur ...
Talk about beating the tunes into the ground ... he's doing the same thing Furthur is - only with a singer with N.O. accent ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLGdi4o3 ... re=related
Gotta be other shit going on behind the scenes
:D
.02 $
 #90250  by Tennessee Jedi
 Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:45 pm
I really dont get what Billy is doing that is new.
IMHO Ratdog was the best/most original/new direction band after the Big Guy kicked it.
Its gotta be money or Ego but I doubt its ' musical direction ' that is the root of this.
:idea:
 #90251  by hotasaPistol
 Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:59 pm
Pretty Sad that BK feels that way....didn't he say that when the dead played the tour with Warren that he didn't like it because it felt to formulated or something to that effect.
I have been on the bus since May of '74. Saw Phil, saw Ratdog, saw 2 of the dead shows with Warren and have seen Furthur 5 times since they started. To me they are the best they have sounded since Jerry passed. I like the new chemistry and the break out of new songs, old songs you never thought you would hear live again. I also like that it is so unpredictable that you can hear any song anywhere in the set lists and it makes it totally more interesting than what the Grateful Dead were doing towards the end of Jerry's playing days. Look at the Furthur set lists from MSG...the Grateful Dead sadly wouldn't have been that ambitious....

there must be more to the story that we don't know and I agree 7 Walkers ain't that great.

just my 5 cents..... :smile: :smile: :smile:
 #90258  by Stevo123
 Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:13 pm
To the Furthur haters, I just have to say: Have you heard Furthur?
I challenge anyone to listen to the improv section following Lady with a Fan in Terrapin Station from Allgood or Red Rocks this year and tell me that's not new and absolutely beautiful.

“The saddest thing is that they (Furthur) hired a guitar player that’s not Warren Haynes. It’s too bad. They should have hired a great solo guitar player.”

What they did was hire one of the tightest, most elite group of ensemble improvisational players on the scene today. And wasn't billy the one who commented that the Dead tour with Warren was too formulated?
 #90261  by jackr
 Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:00 pm
DeadlyHeptet wrote:Amen, Bill (except I don't love Warren's playing either). When Jerry passed, I thought no one could replace him. Now with a number of guitar players having come through the band, I stand by that even more.
I dont think that anyone could argue that jerry could never be replaced by ANYONE. There was a lot more to Jerry then just his playing, he had the whole package that made the band. That being said, Further is an awesome band and if you are looking for the pure grateful dead experience that can never be recaptured. But if you love dead music and you want to hear some damn fine musicians playing it then Further is great entertainment.

And I say entertainment in a complimentary way, it is just cant be the way it used to be with Jerry.

The Grateful Dead changed with the lose of Pigpen and he could never have been replaced but he wasn't the electric trippy guy that made the dead a legend. But I sure did love pigpen as you may have noticed the avatar.

Obviously keyboard players could be replaced but I wonder about Bobby and Phil. Phil has a very unique style and Bobby is a great and probably under rated rhythm player. (not under rated by us here but in the music world).

Anyway Kreutzmann sounds a bit bitter.
 #90262  by gr8fullfred
 Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:18 pm
I have to agree with the above post. Jerry was awesome. He was an awesome musician, he was an awesome person, and he was pivotal in the development of not only the GD, but the whole SF scene and had a huge impact on the culture of his time. In addition, he loved the Deadheads and we loved him, and hell freaking yes there was major magic happening when we all got together and let it rip!

And its been 15 years since we lost him, a long time and alot has happened so we are all a little different then we were then. That being said, saw one Furthur show at MSG and was no doubt the best post Jerry show I have seen including some P&F shows that I have seen. And its super fun to get some of your DH friends together and go to a show. I mean how freaking lucky are we to be able to go see Phil and Bobby crank out some great versions of tunes that are at least for me, embedded deep into the freaking soul at this point.

Yes its not the same, nobody will ever replace Jerry. But its still fun to catch a show and party with your friends, meet some DHs you know at the show and enjoy some great sounding tunes from the boys. And you just have to love some of the long forgotten tunes that they are now playing. And as a bonus, just wait a couple of days and download um from archive.org! One more thing, Phil sounded freaking great! I mean no doubt, the best Phil ever.
 #90263  by Chuckles
 Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:20 pm
I don't see why we even need to compare one to the other. Furthur stands on its own. I don't say this lightly: that first night at MSG was better than 99% of all the Dead shows I ever saw with Jerry and is easily in the top 5 concerts I have seen played by anybody. No shit, it was that good. BK's way out of line, not to mention ill-informed (has he even listened to these guys?).

I don't know if I'd necessarily call Jerry an "awesome person" either... but we've had that discussion here before. :roll:
 #90268  by Lunchbox16
 Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:13 pm
Stevo123 wrote:. And wasn't billy the one who commented that the Dead tour with Warren was too formulated?
I like Warren Haynes, but I never really liked him when he was playing Dead stuff (I'll make an exception for the 2001 era line up of the PLQ). I feel like Warren only has one sound/style and that's the ABB-esque sound/style and it didn't mesh well with the more laid back Dead material. I don't know, just something about him playing with The Dead/The Other Ones/whatever that rubbed me the wrong way. I preferred TOO tour with Herring, at least stylistically. For this reason, the decision not to invite Warren makes sense to ME, but that's just one guy's opinion.

I sure hope Furthur comes to Broomfield as is the speculation. I was out of town for the Red Rocks run and would love to see them.
 #90270  by JonnyBoy
 Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:49 pm
I am with Strum, I wonder the context of his statement and how it was all said, also if it is true or not, maybe it was made up or implied from other quotes... but if he did say such things or it is as implied, I say, if it makes Further and fans happy it can't be that bad, if it makes them happy, then why the hell are you so sad?... -Tao of music. :P
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