A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead
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By Chocol8Re: Mixing Cab Impedances Mon Apr 15, 2024 8:48 am -
By Chocol8Re: Mixing Cab Impedances Mon Apr 15, 2024 8:47 am
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By Chocol8Re: Mixing Cab Impedances Mon Apr 15, 2024 8:45 am
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By thedirewolf600The Eleven's Riffs, Intro, Main Prog(2 positions-4 licks) & Finale Buildup & Climax + Keys/Scales Tue Apr 09, 2024 11:54 am
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By thedirewolf600The Eleven's Riffs, Intro, Main Prog(2 positions-4 licks) & Finale Buildup & Climax + Keys/Scales Mon Apr 08, 2024 9:12 am
I use a dr-07mkII it's great you can get a great audience with the included mic or get a line out of the pa. I get the best recordings when I mic everything and take a line out of the mixer or pa
I'm guessing that you're talking about recording your own band, but I'll offer my $.02, as in the last six months, I've gotten into the hobby of recording live shows of other bands.
The first thing I'll say is check out http://www.taperssection.com - there's a fantastic amount of knowledge and really good people over there. They have tons of threads on just about every recorder on the market. Just like rukinders get into all the nuances of OBELs, etc., TS'ers will get into all the details of the recorders and offer various comparisons.
With respect to the recorder, I use a Sony PCM-M10. http://www.amazon.com/Sony-PCMM10-PCM-M ... 580&sr=8-1. It's got decent externals, but it can also take a board feed and has ridiculously long battery life. Of course, it's even better when you couple it with a good preamp and external mics.
To give some perspective on using the recorder as a standalone and then with external equipment, I'm adding some links.
The first link is the very first show I ever recorded (a friend's jazz trio in a cafe/club with tables facing the small stage):
http://www.archive.org/details/tcq2011-06-15.flac24
At the time, all I owned was the recorder, but I was meeting up with another local taper and he was going to let me borrow some equipment that I had been considering purchasing (not from him, but from the manufacturer - more on that later). Due to some technical difficulties, his equipment wasn't working for the first set, so tracks 1-6 were made entirely by the recorder. It was only in the second set that I used external microphones (although I did NOT use a separate preamp, all amplification was done by the M10).
Listen to the differences between tracks 1-6 and 7-12 and see what you think.
I mention most of this in the notes section on archive.org, but for full disclosure:
Set 1 was recorded entirely by the M10, resting on a table, immediately in front of the guitarist, but off-stage nonetheless, using the omnidirectional microphones of the M10, which have a fixed position.
Set 2 was recorded using higher-quality external omnidirectional microphones, which were plugged into the M10 and powered by the M10's plug-in power, the microphones were placed onstage, next to the piano, in the DIN configuration (if my memory is correct).
So, it's not quite apples to apples, because of the different mic location and configuration, but at least it shows the M10 by itself and then augmented with external mics.
After recording that show, I pulled the trigger and bought not only the omnidirectional microphones, but a set of cariod mics and a preamp from that same manufacturer.
To continue, here's my recent pull of the band Bonerama: http://www.archive.org/details/Bonerama ... a14.flac24
Not directly comparable, because that one was done in a different venue, in an imperfect position, and done with the cardiods, not the omnis, but it may help to show what else you can do when taping.
The preamp and mics I used are hand-made by a guy in Canada, named Chris Church - you can find him on taperssection.com, just look for the user "Church Audio." He has a website, but offers great deals for members of taperssection.
Not sure what you're looking to spend, but just for a ballpark reference, I bought the M10 for $229 on Amazon. Then I got the Church Audio omnidirectional microphones, cardiod microphones, and preamp all as part of a package deal for $250, although that's only because I wanted the new and improved preamp - the basic deal gave you two sets of mics and a preamp for $200 + shipping. He runs a variety of deals periodically, but will often have a production backlog as a result.
I'm not trying to be a shill for the guy, I'm just very happy with my purchase.
And like Levar Burton used to say, "but you don't have to take my word for it..." (seriously, check out http://www.taperssection.com - you'll find all the answers you'd ever need and then some).
Jim
The first thing I'll say is check out http://www.taperssection.com - there's a fantastic amount of knowledge and really good people over there. They have tons of threads on just about every recorder on the market. Just like rukinders get into all the nuances of OBELs, etc., TS'ers will get into all the details of the recorders and offer various comparisons.
With respect to the recorder, I use a Sony PCM-M10. http://www.amazon.com/Sony-PCMM10-PCM-M ... 580&sr=8-1. It's got decent externals, but it can also take a board feed and has ridiculously long battery life. Of course, it's even better when you couple it with a good preamp and external mics.
To give some perspective on using the recorder as a standalone and then with external equipment, I'm adding some links.
The first link is the very first show I ever recorded (a friend's jazz trio in a cafe/club with tables facing the small stage):
http://www.archive.org/details/tcq2011-06-15.flac24
At the time, all I owned was the recorder, but I was meeting up with another local taper and he was going to let me borrow some equipment that I had been considering purchasing (not from him, but from the manufacturer - more on that later). Due to some technical difficulties, his equipment wasn't working for the first set, so tracks 1-6 were made entirely by the recorder. It was only in the second set that I used external microphones (although I did NOT use a separate preamp, all amplification was done by the M10).
Listen to the differences between tracks 1-6 and 7-12 and see what you think.
I mention most of this in the notes section on archive.org, but for full disclosure:
Set 1 was recorded entirely by the M10, resting on a table, immediately in front of the guitarist, but off-stage nonetheless, using the omnidirectional microphones of the M10, which have a fixed position.
Set 2 was recorded using higher-quality external omnidirectional microphones, which were plugged into the M10 and powered by the M10's plug-in power, the microphones were placed onstage, next to the piano, in the DIN configuration (if my memory is correct).
So, it's not quite apples to apples, because of the different mic location and configuration, but at least it shows the M10 by itself and then augmented with external mics.
After recording that show, I pulled the trigger and bought not only the omnidirectional microphones, but a set of cariod mics and a preamp from that same manufacturer.
To continue, here's my recent pull of the band Bonerama: http://www.archive.org/details/Bonerama ... a14.flac24
Not directly comparable, because that one was done in a different venue, in an imperfect position, and done with the cardiods, not the omnis, but it may help to show what else you can do when taping.
The preamp and mics I used are hand-made by a guy in Canada, named Chris Church - you can find him on taperssection.com, just look for the user "Church Audio." He has a website, but offers great deals for members of taperssection.
Not sure what you're looking to spend, but just for a ballpark reference, I bought the M10 for $229 on Amazon. Then I got the Church Audio omnidirectional microphones, cardiod microphones, and preamp all as part of a package deal for $250, although that's only because I wanted the new and improved preamp - the basic deal gave you two sets of mics and a preamp for $200 + shipping. He runs a variety of deals periodically, but will often have a production backlog as a result.
I'm not trying to be a shill for the guy, I'm just very happy with my purchase.
And like Levar Burton used to say, "but you don't have to take my word for it..." (seriously, check out http://www.taperssection.com - you'll find all the answers you'd ever need and then some).
Jim
I don't tape Futhur shows but when i record my own band and friend's bands I use Rode NT4 coincident pair stereo mic --> Metric Halo 2882 DA/AD converter --> Mac computer (Metric Halo software). I'll also run a send from the board and possibly close mic guitar amps if it's practical. When I get an ideal set up it works awesome. It's a lot easier to get right when I'm not playing. I don't like leaving mics unattended in a crowd so it's hard to get the mics in an ideal spot. A device with a good DA converter is right up there in importance with the mics. More important than software for sure. The Metric Halo is badass.
I used to use a Marantz PMD360 and Sennheiser ME80's or 441's or Nac 300's.
I used a D6 and Sonic Studio Binaurals for Garcia Band and anything else I couldn't get the other gear into.
Given that tapes are long gone and I no longer have these mics I want to get back into taping shows. Something compact with great sound.
I used a D6 and Sonic Studio Binaurals for Garcia Band and anything else I couldn't get the other gear into.
Given that tapes are long gone and I no longer have these mics I want to get back into taping shows. Something compact with great sound.
I love my Church Audio mics and think they're the best bang for your buck in the entry-level and/or easily-stealthed markets (though I don't stealth), giving DPA-like results well beyond their ~$100 cost per pair. If you're thinking along the lines of Naks or even Schoeps, you might want to check out Busman Audio. Chris Busman is another regular over at taperssection, and he recently designed a set of active-style mics with a variety of capsules - this is his BSC-2 line. Despite the fact that they can run with the big boys at a fraction of the cost, they weren't moving as fast as he had hoped, and now he's accepting reasonable offers to liquidate stock (previously he was asking for $850 for bodies/powering box, three sets of caps, windscreens, clips, and cases...as well as smaller packages).
At that Bonerama show, i met a taper who had just gotten back into taping after a number of years off. He was running a set of Neumanns > Marantz 661, if I recall.
At that Bonerama show, i met a taper who had just gotten back into taping after a number of years off. He was running a set of Neumanns > Marantz 661, if I recall.
wleeds wrote:I used to use a Marantz PMD360 and Sennheiser ME80's or 441's or Nac 300's.just as a heads-up, over in the yard sale section of taperssection.com:
I used a D6 and Sonic Studio Binaurals for Garcia Band and anything else I couldn't get the other gear into.
Given that tapes are long gone and I no longer have these mics I want to get back into taping shows. Something compact with great sound.
(1) user "stober" is offering an Oade "warm modded" Marantz 661 for sale at $550 shipped. Pics at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/27432067@N07/
The Oade "warm mod" is discussed here http://oade.com/
(2) user "paulbaptiste" has a pair of chopped Nakamichi 300s with CP-1 and CP-2 capsules for sale. No pics yet, he said he's hoping to get them posted soon. His description of the Naks:
"FS: Franken Nakamichi cm 300s with CP 1 and CP2 capsules
One of the best looking nak sets i've seen condition wise even before somebody went ahead and hacked them down. Minixlr mounted inside the back of attenuator barrel, so completely active. 8' minixlr to minixlr cable. and 2 AT phantom adapters with minixlr pigtails to run naks off a full size deck. Can also power from 9v, 12v battery box, or Church 9100 with minixlr inputs. May also come with Batt Box and active mount.
Naks will be priced at 400 or so, trying to figure in the extras; cables , phantom adapters, the powering options I added to the package. PM with interest. Will get pics up when I get them back from a friend who is currently taping with them.
PM with questions, suggestions, interest ect."
I have no affiliation with either seller. But considering what you'd said you'd run in the past, I thought I'd bring these to your attention.
Jim