#111061  by lunchbox
 Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:35 pm
Im a little confused between these two methods. Most players refer to the 5 caged method patterns, but I recently came across the guitar grimoire for scales which contains 7 different patters. These seem to make more since because each pattern corresponds to a mode of the major scale, vs the caged method which seems to just be a standard way to play notes up and down the fret board.

Can anyone shed some light on these to different styles of patterns? Which is better? Which does Jerry and Bobby's style fall into more?

Thanks for the help. PPMD
 #111075  by rkubik
 Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:41 am
This is a good question. Myself I think it has been much easier for me to learn from the CAGED method rather than the Grimoire but I also had some of the same questions. I am interested to see what some of the better theory guys out there think.
 #111420  by paulkogut
 Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:05 am
Does anyone recall a scene from The Exorcist where the young priest reports all the different demons that have manifested, and the old priest cuts him off, saying "There is only one." Let me play the old priest here and say there is only one pattern, it's the neck from nut to 22nd fret, E to shining E.

That's not to say learning devices like CAGED and the Grimoire aren't useful, they are. But they are just ways of breaking down a big piece of information into more digestible bits. Try them both, compare, and see where that leads you.

Here are some things I did that helped my playing out a great deal. Check them out, I hope they're some use to you.

1) Develop an understanding of the building blocks of music in the abstract. Learn intervals, key signatures, scales, triads, 7th chords, etc and how they're constructed . Having some familiarity with written music (staff paper) and the piano keyboard help, because each note appears in only one place, unlike the guitar neck.

2) Learn every note on the neck without the need for an external reference (like a chord shape or scale pattern.) Most folks already know E A D G B E, so you have the 1st and 12th frets covered, only 20 or so to go…………

3)Pick a small area and explore it thoroughly. Maybe a CAGED pattern or something from the Grimoire, maybe up and down one string, maybe a combination. Check out what one pattern gives you that another doesn't. What happens when you stretch to get three notes on one string vs. crossing to the next string. How do left hand fingerings affect the right hand's job? Can you adjust a fingering to make the picking lie better? What does the pick lying better mean to you?

This is a lot of work, but 1&2 at least are sort of finite. If you're gradual and consistent, the stuff comes together.

The other side of the coin is not to get so bogged down in learning the neck that you forget to make music. There's lot's of great music to be made even if you only know one or two scale patterns (Just ask Chuck Berry!)

 #111422  by Pete B.
 Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:52 am
I love when that chicks head spins all the way around!!!... Man, that movie was so scary... now it's like a comedy.
I don't disagree with anything you're saying.
But, for Deadhead guitarists who are in the Adv Beginner range and want to make the leap to Adv Intermediate, the CAGED thing is a slam dunk, imho (fwiw, I've never heard of Grimoire before this thread, and haven't checked it out as of yet).
The reason I say that is, It can be easily shown that typical Bobby and Jerry guitar-isms overlay directly on top of the CAGED method, and it's also a direct match to the typical Ionian, Dorian, and Mixolydian jams, which makes up a pretty incredible amount of Dead tunes/jams that Intermediates can cut their teeth on.