Grateful Dead Music Forum

paulkogut wrote:There's a great quote from pianist Bill Evans where he says jazz isn't really a style, but a process of making music. I feel the same way about the Dead. Not to put down anyone else's approach to music, but if you've got folk that come at it from a "copy the record' perspective or view soloing as something you do OVER the rhythm section rather than a dialogue, it sort of doesn't matter what tune you're doing, it won't ever really get off the ground (In the Dead sense, nothing wrong with a good, tight rock band, just different.) On the other hand, if you're with musicians who listen, react and let the music breathe and grow, it sort of doesn't matter what song you start with (Morning Dew, Cold Rain and Snow, Not Fade Away etc etc all weren't Dead tunes before they were Dead tunes...)

Are you in a situation where bandmates have some mental block/misconceptions about the Dead? It's a drag, but happens pretty often. Maybe you could just encourage the group to adopt some of the Dead's values (jams/segues, first&second set pacing, etc.) and try some sneakier ways of getting the others on the bus (Instead of talking to the drummer about Kreutzmann, turn him on to Elvin Jones and Joe Morello....)
Good luck!
PK

Great points! My band "Heleos', though not having any other dead heads, is already applying a lot of those ideas. We listen to each other and play off one another and take the songs we play in different directions, especially when the audience feeds back energy.

-Todd

I may need to get into another band some day that would be cool with more Dead and more Jam band tunes.
Thanks for any ideas - Todd

Ding, ding, ding--we have a winner.

paulkogut wrote:There's a great quote from pianist Bill Evans where he says jazz isn't really a style, but a process of making music. I feel the same way about the Dead. Not to put down anyone else's approach to music, but if you've got folk that come at it from a "copy the record' perspective or view soloing as something you do OVER the rhythm section rather than a dialogue, it sort of doesn't matter what tune you're doing, it won't ever really get off the ground (In the Dead sense, nothing wrong with a good, tight rock band, just different.) On the other hand, if you're with musicians who listen, react and let the music breathe and grow, it sort of doesn't matter what song you start with (Morning Dew, Cold Rain and Snow, Not Fade Away etc etc all weren't Dead tunes before they were Dead tunes...)

Are you in a situation where bandmates have some mental block/misconceptions about the Dead? It's a drag, but happens pretty often. Maybe you could just encourage the group to adopt some of the Dead's values (jams/segues, first&second set pacing, etc.) and try some sneakier ways of getting the others on the bus (Instead of talking to the drummer about Kreutzmann, turn him on to Elvin Jones and Joe Morello....)
Good luck!
PK

Great post-----as were most of the other ones.
But, If You Have to Explain They likely Won't Understand....


Hey, you could always just dose em and play Without a Net.

Might I suggest the dreaded topic, band management.

Every band needs a few things to be successful:
- some sort of mission statement
- some set of protocols on how things happen
- some sort of leader to do not much more then serve the mission
- a band of folks abiding by all 3

Changing said mission statement mid stream will likely only yeild short term wins of them playing your favorite GD songs.

I'd suggest finding a new band and maybe do a GD tribute or a jamband tribute or GD + The Band + ABB + Dylan tribute, etc..

Thanks for all the great ideas and thoughts! I think that I will keep my eye out for chances to play with other Deadheads and jam type musicians. For now, I guess I'll just enjoy the two bands I'm in for what they are. I must say that last Saturday night at a gig with 41East, the mainly classic rock and oldies band, we did a great version of "Good Lovin" ala mid 70's GD vibe including that intro thing. It was so cool for me to see some people dancing and clearly getting the vibe on it. Yet one guy got tears in his Eyes(and thanked us profusely) when we played "Brown Eyed Girl" His wife who passed away not long ago's favorite song.

Ahhhhh, music is so amazing....
-Todd

I don't disagree with any of the other ideas that have been posted, but let me offer another strategy - don't tell 'em its a dead song.

Pick a song that's relatively obscure (to non Dead-heads that is) and just suggest playing it. Since, in my opinion, the spirit of the dead's music is in playing it your own, not trying to sound exactly like the dead (let's face it, few of us are good enough to do that anyway), you can have some fun and your band mates need never know you are scratching your "itch."

One song that comes to mind as an example, might be something like New Speedway Bogie. It's a nice rock and roll song with plenty of room for improvising.

Good luck.

I have a lot of experience with this issue, I walked into a band that was ok with some dead but not all dead. I pushed all the non dead covers to build a larger GD library, Big RxR blues, mr charlie, etc....It was becoming apparent that our GD material was attracting the most listeners and the listeners begged for more. Some in the band didn't want that. Lots of discussions and plans later, anger and arguing lost us our drummer/singer. BUT we adopted better players that WANT to play the dead and like the dead's music formula and we all moved forward much for the better. Almost Naturally jams and segues started to appear out of nowhere, us playing off each other unrehearsed. We are finally playing it right. I am not saying that is what you have to do, but if you go on a mission to make something the way you want it secretively, then everything around you will change(some of it you don't expect) and some things for the worse and sometimes the better. Those changes can possibly put you at odds with your mates. Its a craps shoot. It was lucky to retain the best players and adopt two KILLER musicians into the project. Now we are doing it right and the music is better than anything I have in my life! and the band is totally drama free which is soooooo nice. Good luck!

JonnyBoy wrote:I have a lot of experience with this issue, I walked into a band that was ok with some dead but not all dead. I pushed all the non dead covers to build a larger GD library, Big RxR blues, mr charlie, etc....It was becoming apparent that our GD material was attracting the most listeners and the listeners begged for more. Some in the band didn't want that. Lots of discussions and plans later, anger and arguing lost us our drummer/singer. BUT we adopted better players that WANT to play the dead and like the dead's music formula and we all moved forward much for the better. Almost Naturally jams and segues started to appear out of nowhere, us playing off each other unrehearsed. We are finally playing it right. I am not saying that is what you have to do, but if you go on a mission to make something the way you want it secretively, then everything around you will change(some of it you don't expect) and some things for the worse and sometimes the better. Those changes can possibly put you at odds with your mates. Its a craps shoot. It was lucky to retain the best players and adopt two KILLER musicians into the project. Now we are doing it right and the music is better than anything I have in my life! and the band is totally drama free which is soooooo nice. Good luck!

Thank you and the others for your input!

I'm encouraged by your bands story. I have to say that with the band Heleos that I'm in, we've experienced the "magic" that I crave a few times. There's something about being out on the highwire with your band mates in front of an accepting enthusiastic audience that comes as close as possible to what I experienced so many times at Dead shows!

My most pressing concern now is getting bigger, like minded crowds for these venues that are kind enough to hire us. It seems that most everyone that shows up likes the band, but getting established and known is quite the challenge.

Please keep the comments and suggestions coming - Todd

Todd GT5 wrote:My most pressing concern now is getting bigger, like minded crowds for these venues that are kind enough to hire us. It seems that most everyone that shows up likes the band, but getting established and known is quite the challenge.

If you interview 100 bands, ask each of all the bands 5 members and ask them how they "took off" you'd get 782 opinions.

Seems to me that it's some combo of:
- playing well
- playing areas enough but not too much
- bonding with the audience
- having fun people at your show
- playing the right songs int he right order
- having the right energy on stage
- etc.

Rusty the Scoob wrote:Agree with both of the above. I've yet to ever really be happy with the results of convincing non-heads to play GD songs. It's just too unique of a musical approach to be able to hand somebody a recording or two and say "here, learn this" with any kind of success. Instead I'd find GD recordings that you think each member would like, and give it to them with the hopes that they latch on and hop on the bus, at least a little.

Agreed - if it's guys well schooled in classic rock but they havent heard the dead by now, it's probably not gonna go over too well. There also seem to be plenty of young people who never got to go to shows, but who know more about the way the dead played than the aforementioned. Which makes me think it's a personality and interest thing and you either get it - or you don't.

Good strategy to probably find heads who know the music from going to shows and/or listening to hours and hours of shows for years on end. I would love to find people who know what I'm talking about if i call a '74 vs an '85 Jack Straw. Someone else mentioned the musical connection approach too - and I think that helps a lot, dead or non-dead, it is an art after all.

Which is a great lead in for my shameless plug - anyone near Philly - bonus if in Delco - wanna get together and play some sets of dead shows?

Bertha and Truckin are super likeable by many and fun to play! I'd say don't recommend anything too dark or sappy

oh hey, why not be sneaky and introduce some stuff the Dead played that wasn't written by them. Then you don't give off guilty vibes

Hey guys, here's the cover band(41East), I'm in, doing "Good Lovin'". I know it's not the most challenging Dead song, but our guitar player does a nice jam in it.

http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_11467485

Here's a sample of what my other band "Heleos" does. An original song.

http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_11274422

-Todd

Just make them listen to a show. I can change a man.

Hey guys, I know this is an old thread now, but the classic rock and oldies band I'm in "41East" is getting "Touch Of Grey" ready to put in our rotation and we're going to start working on "Ripple". They are "commin' around". Also their getting to like extending solos and doing some improv jams from time to time. Yay!
-Todd

Congratulations! Enjoy!