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Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #1296  by ycomp
 Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:30 am
Hi,

Jerry seems to do this thing a lot so I was wondering how to play it. An example of one is 4 mins into eyes on 5/7/77

What I'm talking about is the start of his playing after the chorus where it sounds like he is "dancing" for a lack of a better word.

Here's a link to it. It's at 3:48 into the song.

(64k MP3 - 6 MB)
http://www.archive.org/download/gd77-05 ... 1_64kb.mp3

OggVorbis (Sounds better 13 MB)
http://www.archive.org/download/gd77-05 ... 07d3t1.ogg

I'm using Winamp 5. I hope the time (3:48) is accurate but I've noticed that sometimes winamp times are not very.

Thanks!

 #1303  by ycomp
 Thu Dec 16, 2004 2:32 pm
Kenny,

what I am talking about is the jerry soloing after the 1st chorus. Immediately after the first chorus. It is 4 minutes into Eyes on 5/7/77.

I am interested in the first 10 seconds of this, but the critical part is the first 4 to 5 seconds.

duh-duh, di duh duh, di duh duh, di duh duh...

My soloing is very limited and I'm sure that once I understand how to play this then it will give me new ideas on how to add color to my soloing.

I tried to figure it out but I gave up. I figured something nice but of course it is not the same. My ears are either (1) not very good or (2) not very good yet. Only time will tell.

E: 12 11 (release string), 11 9 B: 12 10 9 G: 11 9

So any help or insight is much appreciated. Thanks for offering to help Kenny.
 #1456  by dr_greenthumb
 Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:13 pm
Ok i think i can help you a little bit or a least set you in a good direction. First off you need to know that Jerry's Jamming especially in 77 consisted of the Mixedolydian scale major scale and major pentatonic he also threw arpegios in there every once in a while. In this song where you describe his jamming as dancing, which jerry did a lot is a mixture of several techniques. he goes through the scales note by note hitting all of them some are axcented longer than others at the same time he is doing parts of the scales intervalicley. You first need to become very very very familiar with your scales you need to be able to se where all of its positions connect with one another. Jerry could run through scales with his eyes closed behind his back doing backflips on a trampaline. so this will take a lot of practice. good luck
 #1457  by dr_greenthumb
 Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:43 pm
WOW i just found out the secret to Jerry's dance.

My guitar teacher showed a technique that jerry

himself created and it's called

"Descending Intervalic Thirds"

Jerry did this mostly with the mixolydian scale but

he knew how to do it with every scale

Heres what it would look like in a mixolydian scale

In A on the 5th Fret


E-10-7-9----7----------------------------------------
B--------10---8-10-7-8---7---------------------------
G----------------------9---7-9-6-7---6---------------
D----------------------------------9---7-9-5-7---5---
A----------------------------------------------9---7-
E----------------------------------------------------

E---------------------------------------------------
B---------------------------------------------------
G---------------------------------------------------
D---------------------------------------------------
A-9-5-7---5-----------------------------------------
E-------9---7-9-5-7---------------------------------


There it is the descending intervalic thirds of the mixolydian scale this took me forever to get down i went one day without practicing it and it totally through me off. Also along with this technique also mess around with jumping around whitin a scale you will find that Jerry used these techniques to create the amazing Dark Star. Please post and let me know if this helped you at all. GOOD LUCK KENNY

 #1458  by jck_strw
 Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:59 pm
Wow, this is so cool. I like the way this sounds. So what exactly are you doing here? How can I do this with other scales? What do you mean by 'in A on the 5th fret'? I understand that it's in A, but what does the 5th fret part mean?
 #1459  by dr_greenthumb
 Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:21 pm
hi my name is greg im 16 and i love guitar and the Dead. What i mean by A on the fith fret is that A is on the fith fret on the E string. But the intervalic thirds sound pretty cool huh? To do this with other scales just follow that same pattern for them.


I know A LOT about Jerry and his tricks. And i know several songs the correct way so if you have any questions just ask.

 #1469  by jck_strw
 Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:03 pm
dr--

16? Damn you. :)

Ok, show me another trick. You got anything for UJB? What else you got in that big brain. You show, I'll learn.

Thanks!
 #1493  by jhc
 Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:26 pm
dr_greenthumb wrote:WOW i just found out the secret to Jerry's dance.

My guitar teacher showed a technique that jerry

himself created and it's called

"Descending Intervalic Thirds"

Jerry did this mostly with the mixolydian scale but

he knew how to do it with every scale

Heres what it would look like in a mixolydian scale

In A on the 5th Fret


E-10-7-9----7----------------------------------------
B--------10---8-10-7-8---7---------------------------
G----------------------9---7-9-6-7---6---------------
D----------------------------------9---7-9-5-7---5---
A----------------------------------------------9---7-
E----------------------------------------------------

E---------------------------------------------------
B---------------------------------------------------
G---------------------------------------------------
D---------------------------------------------------
A-9-5-7---5-----------------------------------------
E-------9---7-9-5-7---------------------------------


There it is the descending intervalic thirds of the mixolydian scale this took me forever to get down i went one day without practicing it and it totally through me off. Also along with this technique also mess around with jumping around whitin a scale you will find that Jerry used these techniques to create the amazing Dark Star. Please post and let me know if this helped you at all. GOOD LUCK KENNY
Very cool - cant wait to try it out

I'm guessing this in B will work well for Fire on the Mountain, and in D will work with later Playin' jams (early ones in D Dorian, later in D Mixolydian)

 #3039  by hesgone95
 Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:21 pm
This is a cool trick! I think this is more or less what he's doing in the Intro of Music. But why is it called Intervalic Thirds? There aren't really any third intervals, aside from the natural A and C#. i.e., the first few notes are D B C# A (a third) C# G A F# E etc. Where does the third come in? D B is an interval of 6. B C# an interval of 1. C# A is a minor 6. And why are you starting the scale on the 4th? Just a couple of questions. Or am I completely dense and missing something obvious? :-? Anyway it's a cool sound and I can't wait to try it out with someone else. :cool:

 #3142  by DanK
 Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:28 pm
The Intervalic descending thirds or whatever means that in the A mixolydian scale, you are descending in intervals of a thirds. i do the exact same trick going up the scale too. ok so the tenth fret on the high e string is a B note. the relative minor is a B note, on the seventh fret. that is a minor third, descending. the next third is between the C# on the 9th fret and the A on the 5th fret. that is a major third. the next third is between the seventh fret on the e string, the b note, and the eighth fret of the b string, which is a g note, making it a major third. so the chords that are implied so far are B minor, A Major, and a G major. watch out though there is a minor 7 flat 5 in there somewhere. I'll give you a hint, its the Db :) a third is whenever you skip a note in the major scale, it is either a minor or major third, depending on how far it is. it gets weirder when you get into different scales, like the wholetone and such.
happy plucking
-dank

ps, now that kenny has left i guess all of us lazy people who are educated should do the right thing and chip in, huh?

 #3151  by tigerstrat
 Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:15 pm
ok so the tenth fret on the high e string is a B note. the relative minor is a B note, on the seventh fret. that is a minor third, descending.
I don't think you meant to type "B" twice so it would be:

ok so the tenth fret on the high e string is a D note. the relative minor is a B note, on the seventh fret. that is a minor third, descending.

 #3833  by nodin
 Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:52 am
The secret is using modes. I've been really interested in modal playing lately after finding out Jerry and the boys used modes frequently, A great introduction to modes is Miles Davis' Kind of blue.

Anyway doing a search on modes + Grateful dead I came across these ...
This first one is directly related to Eyes of the world, he titles it "modes of the world"http://www.guitarsessions.com/jan06/rockblues.asp
be sure to check out the previous two lesson on modes he had(December and November 2005)

This ones a great place to start on modes, you can get a midid loop of different songs( afew dead included) and a changeable diagram of modes relating to the song. This way you can jam along and get a feel for how differnt modes can change the feeling and sound of the song http://www.highcountryguitar.com/mode_w ... ameset.htm

finally here's a useful piece for jamming along to Eyes http://www.guitarresources.net/artist_g ... _tabs.html
use those scale patterns from this and mix em' up play along to Eyes and you start to get it after a couple takes. What I did was made a cd of different versions of Eyes (early 70's mid and late) after about the third versuion of trial and error jamming it clicked.

 #3856  by jck_strw
 Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:38 pm
nodin

Excellent information. Thanks for the links.

 #4198  by CaptainTrips
 Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:23 am
wow, this info is gonna have me goin for ages. its like Im discovering the band all over again by playing it on guitar. thanks to all for the info.