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 #159791  by mikelawson
 Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:37 pm
Honestly, I start everything flat and go from there. It would not occur to me to start with a frowny face or other setting. I start flat, and tune the room from there. I haven't been a live sound engineer for many years now, though I still have the occasional misfortune to have to run our own for certain kinds of gigs (thank god for iPad mixing and personal monitor mixes via iOS). I was trained to start flat. The books I published (but did not write) teach this technique as well. At the end of the day, though, whatever works. As Joe Meek said, "If it sounds right, it is right."
 #159802  by gratefulfork
 Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:43 am
I also do FOH in a number of different settings and have never ended up (from starting flat) with a reverse smile in my eqs. in sometimes cut a little in the higher frequencies -(5-7k) if things sound harsh but that’s a big if. and in terms of sub frequencies, that’s the point of separate subs right? i always just use the level of the subs to control that.
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 #159803  by zambiland
 Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:14 am
Searing75 wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:31 pm
I’m curios as to how many who have disagreed with my upside down smile eq have run sound? Not trying to suggest anything here, just wondering. I have run sound for a handful of bands for a long time, and every room I have ever done always had the upside down smile going on. Now, I am speaking of the master eq. The overall eq for the whole pa. The extreme lows are cut as well as the extreme highs. I know other engineers who also run their PAs by this rule. I have never, in 25 years experiences a different eq pattern. Yes, some tweaking here and there occurred at different bands, but the upside down smile was always a constant. We are talking about frequencies that are below and above a humans ability to hear! Cut them out! Avoid sub sonic, and sibilant madness!
Well, when you say upside down smile, merely dumping sub and super-sonic frequencies is not what comes to mind. Certainly I will use a high pass filter on just about every channel and sometimes the main L/R. Definitely on the monitor channels.

I will also note that sibilance doesn't come from the very highest frequencies, but the lower high frequencies, usually around 4khz or so. Dumping those frequencies results in a dull sound, with little clarity. If something sounds sibilant, it's not beyond the reach of human hearing.

So, maybe we don't disagree as much as I thought, but it might be useful to spend some time learning the generally accepted terms used in sound reinforcement. If you were at a gig and told the engineer to give the PA an upside down smile or a frown curve, you would end up with something that really doesn't sound very good.
 #159808  by gratefulredhead
 Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:57 pm
I do sound all the time, I have a Sound craft analog signature 22 board. I put high pass filters on all the channels except bass guitar. My EQ starts flat and ends up with slight cuts in the high end if the room is super reflective or if there is feedback. I boost the upper mids on the vocals a touch so they'll cut, and keep the highs in for sparkle. My master EQ remains pretty flat, and most adjustments are done per channel.
 #159818  by strumminsix
 Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:09 pm
"I’m curios as to how many who have disagreed with my upside down smile eq have run sound?"

I think I'd have sever ear fatigue by the end of the first set. By that logic you've dumped your lowest end and highest end and bad everything a midrange instrument.

Some of my general thoughts:
Drums: need tightening on the top end and kick needs some support around 2.5k
Bass: similar to drums. need to support their low end and punch frequency
Keys: high pass at 100 and adjust depending on how useful their left hand is
Guitars: high pass at 100, tune by guitarists, pan the mix
Vocals: high pass at 100, find the supporting frequencies in low mids and presence.

I steer clear of global EQ's unless the system is setup for the band and just needs tuning for the room.
 #159819  by zambiland
 Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:53 pm
strumminsix wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:09 pm

Keys: high pass at 100 and adjust depending on how useful their left hand is
That's why you have a bass player. High pass at 250! Or just tie his left hand to the chair.

Healy high passed the kick drums at up to well over 100hz. Sort of weird, but I guess it worked.
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 #159825  by strumminsix
 Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:22 pm
zambiland wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:53 pm
strumminsix wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:09 pm

Keys: high pass at 100 and adjust depending on how useful their left hand is
That's why you have a bass player. High pass at 250! Or just tie his left hand to the chair.

Healy high passed the kick drums at up to well over 100hz. Sort of weird, but I guess it worked.
I wish I had better mixers with variable high pass :( most of mine are 100 or nothing.

Most keyboard players I've mixed or played with used their left hand to accompany the real hero being their right hand. 2 exceptions. One almost never their left arm and it always sounded empty. Another played every song always like he was the lone musician in the band covering all parts. LOL!