[strumminsix]

To qualify all of this, I haven't heard anything except the JBL D-120s in my rig some time ago. Weber once claimed the Cali was a replacement for the JBLs. That would be hard to believe as the voice coils in those were no where near as large as the JBLs. The NEOs aren't the same magnet, so again, I'd have a hard time believing they are the same. I am not one that needs the exact replacement for most equipment, but just saying.

As for multiple speakers, it is opinion of Steve Kimock that the best tone is one speaker powered by two output tubes. Of course he has multiple rigs with all sorts of combinations, but the man has been a tone hound forever and I tend to at least listen to his opinions on these matters.

Ha your right! The neo has some weird kind of magnet which helps cut back on the weight, but is weight more important than the tone? Not to me. And the Cali has a 2'' voice coil, not 4".

And yes Kimock changes his gear constantly. It really is a whole other school of tone when it comes to him. You can find a lot of helpful info and tips from his own forum, plenty of gear nerds over there as well. Steve, like Jerry, has gotten his amps (most notably his bandmaster, bassman, and dumble) customized a lot, such as switching out transformers for larger ones. He's also a big fan of D-130's. Lot of info here for anyone who cares... http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=us

Dude, it's not a big secret about the Neo having a "weird magnet". This weird type is called NEOdymium and more common in and everywhere in music.

I'd suggest stop documentation analysts and listen with your ears, folks. They are GREAT sounding speakers and very JBL D120 F sounding. That's a fact.

Every soundguy I've worked with has thought mine was a JBL. FACT.

But I do agree, tone comes from fingers and tubes

[unnbrokenchain]

Hey Strumminsix

I know you love yours, and that's cool. I'm just going to be picky when it comes to spending over 200$ or possibly 300$ on a pair of speakers I have not tried out yet. if only there were people like you guys at my local music shop (AKA Guitar Center)

[strumminsix]

Hey Strumminsix

I know you love yours, and that's cool. I'm just going to be picky when it comes to spending over 200$ or possibly 300$ on a pair of speakers I have not tried out yet. if only there were people like you guys at my local music shop (AKA Guitar Center)

Your post above made it sound like you were discounting them based on magnet technology and design.

Guitar Center is the last place I'd ever order speakers from. I'd rather go cheap on eBay and likely get better service.

This is your thread, yes? Isn't the point of your thread to get advice on what features for your NeoMag?

Why the pushback on my advocating NeoMags? I don't get it.

[Jon S.]

I hope y'all won't kick me off the forum for saying this but when I was running a pair of Weber NeoMags w/aluminum caps in my SSP Jerry 2X12 (vertical 2X12), my sound was harsh on top and whimpy in the lower mids. I switched to a Jensen Neo on the bottom (for powerful, clean lower mids) and a Weber NeoMag with paper cap on top (for sweet and never harsh highs) and now I'm lovin' life.

[Chuckles]

And you swore me to secrecy that you were playing through paper cones! Guess the cat's out of the bag now...

[Scarlet]

I hope y'all won't kick me off the forum for saying this but when I was running a pair of Weber NeoMags w/aluminum caps in my SSP Jerry 2X12 (vertical 2X12), my sound was harsh on top and whimpy in the lower mids. I switched to a Jensen Neo on the bottom (for powerful, clean lower mids) and a Weber NeoMag with paper cap on top (for sweet and never harsh highs) and now I'm lovin' life.

This is very interesting. I am probably going to get myself a Weber California soon & am still thinking about the paper vs aluminum caps. I have read so many posts on gear forums where people say the aluminum cap Cali is harsh & ice-picky. I know Jerry used aluminum cap JBLs throughout his career, but he was playing at much louder volumes than I am doing in bars and clubs. I have heard that metal cap speakers need to be really pushed to get the best out of them. I wonder if I might be better off with a paper cap instead as a sort of authenticity/tinnitus compromise?
I do like the sound of the paper cap Cali in this speaker shootout...
http://www.seanet.com/~pauls/Jbl_ish_sp ... edited.mp3
..although the D120F he plays from 0:00 - 0:49 sounds the best of all. I think the Neo Mag in the above clip is harsh & nasal sounding.

[pula58]

That was me, I made the A/B clips of the Weber and JBL speakers.

I have been in a the process of selling-off a lot of gear (my biz. has been slow). So, I sold the 12" Weber ceramic (paper dome) Cali, and I also sold the 12" paper dome (cloth edge) Weber Neomag.

IMHO, the JBL D120-F (reconed with E-120 kit in 1987) was nicer than the Webers. So, the Webers had to go. But, when I had the Cali and Neomag in my Pro Reverb it was the nicest speaker combination I ever had in that amplifier. Two D120-F's, or two K120's or (god help me) two E120's would have made the amplifier too heavy!

The JBL's have this thing special going for them. I heard one person describe it as "like having heavier gauge strings." I would have to agree with that. Also, to me, the JBL is like having the perfect "brite switch." It adds briteness, but not in the nasty way that Fender "brite" switches can do (especially if you use an overdrive pedal). It's like the perfect "1/2" brite switch!

The JBL's sound killer with an overdrive pedal, metal dome and all. Once I discovered the JBL's I sold all my other speakers (except the Weber Michigan: good for living room as it is not very efficient, and has muted highs). So, currently I have two K-120's (both re-coned with E-120 JBL recone kit), an orange framed D120-F (re-coned in 1987, probably with the E-120 kit) and an E120. So far, I use the K120's all the time and they are the best speaker I have ever used. The E120 is a monster, I am not sure if I can handle it's stiffness (The K's have more "give" to them)...but it is a special speaker for-sure.

I am utterly and completely, and perhaps permanently, converted too 100% JBL use.

I have tried the following other speakers:

Weber 12F150
Weber 12F150B
Weber 12F150A
Weber Blue Dog (30W, ceramic magnet)
Weber Cali (ceramic magnet, paper dome)
Weber Neomag (cloth edge, paper dome)
Austin speaker works KTS-60, and KTS-70 (nice !!!)
WGS Reaper HP (like a higher wattage version of a Celestion G12H30)
original (not re-coned) Jensen C12N from 1965 (hated these, I don't understand why people love them)
Eminence Wizard
Eminence Cannabis Rex
Eminence R, W and Blues
Celestion H12H30
1980's EVM 12L

[TI4-1009]

I posted this in a Jerry Tone thread, but when I asked Weber for a suggestion on a Weber speaker that would come closest to the E120 when driven by a low power amp, they suggested the 12F125

[hawk900]

JBL's are thee only way to go. Especially the E' ceramics. Even the 110's are not as crowd controlling. There are so sweet. Just look at their specs. A 4inch voice coil and sensitivity range not to mention durabilty and freq. rsponse. Nothin will be made the same. It's always great to have a wack of range and power on standby.. Dependinding on your your acoustic room setup up I sometimes have to muffle these basbies . I played a frat party last week and had 2 put my 2by12 e-120's right up against the back of a couch. Damn did that sound acousticy and like candy. Big Crowds and especially blaze those crystal cleans out to the highway for outdoor jams. Best speaker ever made that and the 15 by far.

[claytushaywood]

As for multiple speakers, it is opinion of Steve Kimock that the best tone is one speaker powered by two output tubes. Of course he has multiple rigs with all sorts of combinations, but the man has been a tone hound forever and I tend to at least listen to his opinions on these matters.

I am just about to order a california- a cool dude at weber offered me one cali discounted- I was planning on getting 2 8ohm cali's for my pro reverb. But now I'm thinking it'd be cool to lower the weight and save some dough and just get a single 4 ohm cali. They're rated at 80 watts. my pro is 40 watts. So I figure I'll be able to push the single speaker a little better and lighten the load a bit.

This kimock thing adds to the interest. So is this referring to a specific Class or type of output tube operation? Does kimock play 6L6 AB push pull amps? I havent had too much experience with single speaker amps. Is it really gonna take a lot of spread out of my sound? I was thinking about maybe getting a beam blocker to improve spread from the single speaker. Should I just go with the two calis?

Thanks!

[hawk900]

Sorry didn't mean type the E's but yes a few post's above mention closest thing to an E. Again yes youre right about the E's an what they call the beam of death. Try the baffling technique based on your acoustic environment. I betcha out in the park or back yard the E's would be the bomb(never tried but will this summer).In a smaller dry walled room = shit acoustics the couch trick or even pointing a couple inches away from a wall behind your rack giving it the presence of being in the room but not in your face makes a great diff.
Even this open back birch hard trucker cab is not appropriate 50% of the time. I bought a stackable black insulated cab for 2 12's and is my current in house setup.It only has 3 POP can size vent holes in the back and produces the sweet sweet highs just not glass breakin frequency. Big diff too. I still have homemade russian birch single and a double cab incase I want half the city to hear Jerry or decide to go jam somewhere.
Wonder if when Jer went to the the black cab was it insulated.
Again if the above mentioned speaker is a very similar replica then it's nice to have that power beam as backup for eg. outdoors,noisey bars,theatres,etc.

[Smolder]

Best speaker ever made that and the 15 by far.

Agreed. Just took possession of an original cone D-130 today... 15 inches of killer tone! I may have to put the twin in a head cab after all. I favor the Alnicos over the ceramics though.

[Jon S.]

This thread's back to life?! Well, in that case, I've stuck over time, in my 2X12, with my Weber NeoMag paper cap on top & Jensen Neo 12-100 on bottom though I'll admit to continuing to keep my mind, eyes, and ears open for possible new & better options. Which still, FWIW, won't include real JBLs. I remain unwilling to cart around and transport a 75 lb. cab. Whatever "extra" a pair of real JBLs would give me versus my Neo speakers is not enough to influence me to use them. I realize I'm in the minority on this point on this particular forum. The bright side is that when you bid on your pair of JBLs on eBay, I'll be one less person to compete with!

[mijknahs]

This thread's back to life?! Well, in that case, I've stuck over time, in my 2X12, with my Weber NeoMag paper cap on top & Jensen Neo 12-100 on bottom though I'll admit to continuing to keep my mind, eyes, and ears open for possible new & better options. Which still, FWIW, won't include real JBLs. I remain unwilling to cart around and transport a 75 lb. cab. Whatever "extra" a pair of real JBLs would give me versus my Neo speakers is not enough to influence me to use them. I realize I'm in the minority on this point on this particular forum. The bright side is that when you bid on your pair of JBLs on eBay, I'll be one less person to compete with!

Jon,

You really should consider a 1x12" open back cab with a JBL K-120. That won't break your back. Just like an MC50 won't break your back either (even though it's a "McIntosh").

I played for years with just a 1x12" Mesa Boogie extension cab with a JBL installed (either E120 or K120). I prefer the E120 but the K120 is lighter.

I totally agreen with pula58 (although I've never tried the Eminence Commonwealth or Beyma Liberty).

Jim

[Jon S.]

Jon,

You really should consider a 1x12" open back cab with a JBL K-120. That won't break your back.

Jim

OK, I will!

I actually was already considering replacing my SSP vertical 2X12, at some point, w/a pair of 1X12s. I'm gun-shy now, though, on copping a used JBL. I tried this once last year, the K120 I got off of eBay arrived with an issue the seller hadn't disclosed, and I ended up having to sell it at a significant loss (because I, of course, disclosed the issue up-front).