Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #153847  by Drybonz
 Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:49 pm
Hey guys... looking for some help with envelope filter (or other pedals) settings for the later Bobby Ratdog tone (such as the one you hear on the studio version of Corrina). What pedals are involved in this tone, and the basic settings?

Thanks for the help.
 #153858  by ski_rick
 Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:56 am
You can see the settings on Mark Karan's Envelope Filter in this picture (it's the Hartman pedal on the right center)


There are some posts about Bobby's recent pedalboards on here, but I haven't seen anything dating back to Ratdog. I find Envelope Filter setting are very dependent on the guitar you have plugged into them and what comes before the EF in the signal change. I have 4 different EFs and they all respond differently to each of my guitars, I often have to tweak the settings if I change guitars.
 #153860  by Drybonz
 Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:20 pm
Hey, thanks for the reply, Ski Rick. I've seen that Mark Karan pedalboard picture before actually. He keeps it very tidy.

Mainly, what I am looking to reproduce is Bobby's EF rhythm sound with that popping effect... not sure how best to describe it, but he uses it a lot on Music Never Stopped and, like I mentioned, you can hear it in the studio version of Corrina. I'm not sure what all the effects are in that tone... it's some EF and probably some other stuff. That's mainly what I'm trying to figure out.

I think you are right, also, about the different guitars needing different settings on the EF. I have two guitars and they seem to behave differently with that effect. I struggle with the effect either being too flat and having no "pop", or with it being too far on the trebly end of the spectrum... and it seems, to me, to be much easier to get that effect right for leads rather than a rhythm sound.
 #153864  by lovetoboogie
 Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:08 pm
It should be noted that Weir played his Envelope Filters in the "down" position which is a sharp contrast to what some people think of an EF. Garcia also used the down position judiciously to achieve some great results...the flute-like tone on late 70's Dancin in the Streets for one...

Weirs counterpart riff to Garcia in Shakedown Street is an Envelope Filter in the down setting. He pretty much follows suit with all his post-GD stuff, Ratdog included... You can track down an Ibanez or Maxon AF-9 and that will get you some mileage...
 #153865  by Drybonz
 Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:44 pm
Hey LTB, thanks for the info about the down position EF, that is very helpful.

I'm gonna attach a very short snippet of the song with the sound I'm looking for... and honestly, I may be confusing the EF with another effect here... maybe you guys can help me with that. It's not the keys part, but Bobby's part, over that, that I am interested in. ... sp=sharing
 #153870  by lovetoboogie
 Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:17 am
Wow...that clip was short alright! ;)

In any case...I gave the Ratdog version a listen and to my ears I don't hear any effect on Weir's main rythym track. It's just his normal heavily eq'd jangle... Sounds like a bolt-on guitar ... I know he was using that 50's Telecaster alot around that time. Maybe one of the Weir guys here will chime in.
 #153874  by Drybonz
 Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:45 am
lovetoboogie wrote:Wow...that clip was short alright! ;)
Haha... sorry about that. I figured you guys probably all have access to that track so I just wanted to isolate that sound.

It seems, to me, like there's a light effect with the envelope that causes that popping attack to the notes, and maybe some type of modulation that you hear in the middle of the note? I don't think I can replicate that sound without some kind of effects.
 #153884  by flyingheelhook
 Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:32 am
I haven't listened to the clip but Weir uses the EF in both down and up modes so I don't think its accurate to characterize him as only using it one way. Also, I think he currently uses a hybrid EF/Phaser these days too.
 #153892  by Dozin
 Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:52 pm
The problem with the tones you're requesting is that Weir was using modeling units like the Eleven rack unit and GForce. So without knowing how he's stacking his chain of effects it's guess work.
 #153893  by strumminsix
 Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:52 pm
Dozin wrote:The problem with the tones you're requesting is that Weir was using modeling units like the Eleven rack unit and GForce. So without knowing how he's stacking his chain of effects it's guess work.
The 11rack has one of the best flangers i've ever heard. if I was a big rock star i would have kept it just for that! LOL!
 #153898  by Drybonz
 Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:25 pm
strumminsix wrote:Corrina and Victim tones can be accomplished by stacking an overdrive and phaser
I think we are talking about different sounds... I know the Victim tone you are talking about, but it's not the one I'm going for.