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 #159992  by Blacklodgebob
 Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:12 pm
One other point that I haven't heard discussed much hear lately, but which Waldo reminded me--Jerry used 3 or 4 JBL Es or Ks not necessarily for stage volume but for tone because of the impedance from the speakers wired in parallel. So 3 x 8 ohm parallel / 3 = ~ 2.7 ohms, and you power that mismatched upward at the 4 or 8 ohm tap on your power amp and you're going to get very nice, warm, slightly clipped tone at a reasonable volume (using a Twin, gain at 5, treble 8-10, mid 5-7, no bass, reverb to taste). I keep my guitar volume pot at less than 5. Very important to practice with your rig regularly to get the volume controlled. I can play in my garage and my camera picks up my breathing so it's really not that loud at all. Keep playing!
[/quote]

Love this! Gonna try it out :) Waldo the wizard - had never heard this before! Thanks for sharing
 #159993  by WokeUpDead
 Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:28 pm
Blacklodgebob wrote:Woke up Dead - stop using JBL speakers - they need too much power to smoothen out unless your using D's which will blow at 50w. Tone Tubby Purple's will smooth out the highs and give you a familiar e120 voice at much lower volumes.

As for the super - would not advise on working with that circuit for these purposes. Bandmaster reverb heads Ive had good luck with though - just like hauling a sub zero refrigerator around.

Seriously checkout a Fargen Blackbird or a Redplate Blackverb. You guys would love it. 40ibs of tone. I had two redplates, but the backup never got used. So sold that one, just have the one in a head cabinet now. Killer!

* just wanted to add that I find you get that Jerry on stage with a wall of sound tone with tubes in the power section a bunch easier than pushing any of the favorite SS power options. The transformer + tubes start cooking at a lot lower volume which with the other EQ Jerry tricks, decent speakers, pup, guitar etc - gets me there pretty quick. Out of two cabinets my 50w redplate is as loud as hell and can be clean as a bell at warp factor face melt volume
I haven't used the JBL's yet. I have a bunch of 10" JBL's that I'm going to try sticking in the super.
MattMan wrote:
MattMan wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:10 am
A Twin with some E or K120s is a perfectly workable amp at low volumes. No need to play loud.

Although the trick for good Jerry tone IMO is a preamp tapped Twin, an old school power amp (e.g., McIntosh, MosValve), and JBLs, the other main trick for me is to tilt back the speaker cab or combo so the sound dissipates towards your ears, and if at all possible use a monitor with your guitar prominent in your monitor. That way you keep the volume reasonable. A Twin at low volumes is a great tone. With a monitor you can get great feedback too. Use pedals as needed for overdrive or distortion. I've been working on tone and technique full time for a few years now and the trick for me is speaker placement, a monitor, light pick technique that is as soft as my finger picking, and again, good speaker placement so I can hear it. Finally, get a good ear in the audience to tell you what they're hearing. Most club sound engineers in my neck of the country are used to metal bands where the guitar is a stack cranked, so they need a little help with a musical softer volume band playing jam band music. Finally, I shared the stage with a guitarist who was using a Blues Junior and he wanted my Twin after. The power of the Twin can be for volume but use it for tone.
One other point that I haven't heard discussed much hear lately, but which Waldo reminded me--Jerry used 3 or 4 JBL Es or Ks not necessarily for stage volume but for tone because of the impedance from the speakers wired in parallel. So 3 x 8 ohm parallel / 3 = ~ 2.7 ohms, and you power that mismatched upward at the 4 or 8 ohm tap on your power amp and you're going to get very nice, warm, slightly clipped tone at a reasonable volume (using a Twin, gain at 5, treble 8-10, mid 5-7, no bass, reverb to taste). I keep my guitar volume pot at less than 5. Very important to practice with your rig regularly to get the volume controlled. I can play in my garage and my camera picks up my breathing so it's really not that loud at all. Keep playing!
Do you have E120's in the twin combo? I wonder if the baffle is sturdy enough to support that weight. I could certainly get a cab and put the twin in a head at some point instead. I haven't been able to find any K120's so I may just pick up the E120s I found. Can the E120's be run in parrallel - just two of the them -and have the same effect your describing just using the twin power section without getting a solid state amp?
 #160000  by strumminsix
 Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:51 pm
A great amp to checkout for fantastic lower volume tone is the Dr D Maz 8. All I use in jams. Enough clean headroom if mic'd. Perfect for keeping the volume down but tone strong. This is not a typical Jerry setup, but worth an audition.
 #160001  by mgbills
 Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:26 pm
Here is the shameless plug of the night.

I'm sitting in my Whacknut Conservatory (spare bedgroom) playing nice & low. Just traded out my E120's a couple weeks ago for a pair of K's that I've had in a box. They needed the exercise. It really doesn't matter with a Maestro.

Yea. I acknowledge that it's not the cheapest route. But with a buffered guitar the rig sings at any volume. Of course it's got a wee bit of lagniappe loud, but a Waldo modded Twin is a different amp at any volume.

Lot's of great choices out there, but some of ya'all are not talking about a cheap route in this thread. A SF Twin chassis or Dual Showman aren't big money. I think I payed less than $500 for my '69-'70 head that went to Waldo.

Of all the choices I think an un-modded Twin is the least forgiving. I've got big love for Mesa & the Deluxe reverb route as well. But the Maestro is unparalleled, even if you're not doing the Jerry thang.
 #160002  by frankenstein260
 Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:43 pm
MattMan wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:49 am
MattMan wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:10 am
A Twin with some E or K120s is a perfectly workable amp at low volumes. No need to play loud.

Although the trick for good Jerry tone IMO is a preamp tapped Twin, an old school power amp (e.g., McIntosh, MosValve), and JBLs, the other main trick for me is to tilt back the speaker cab or combo so the sound dissipates towards your ears, and if at all possible use a monitor with your guitar prominent in your monitor. That way you keep the volume reasonable. A Twin at low volumes is a great tone. With a monitor you can get great feedback too. Use pedals as needed for overdrive or distortion. I've been working on tone and technique full time for a few years now and the trick for me is speaker placement, a monitor, light pick technique that is as soft as my finger picking, and again, good speaker placement so I can hear it. Finally, get a good ear in the audience to tell you what they're hearing. Most club sound engineers in my neck of the country are used to metal bands where the guitar is a stack cranked, so they need a little help with a musical softer volume band playing jam band music. Finally, I shared the stage with a guitarist who was using a Blues Junior and he wanted my Twin after. The power of the Twin can be for volume but use it for tone.
One other point that I haven't heard discussed much hear lately, but which Waldo reminded me--Jerry used 3 or 4 JBL Es or Ks not necessarily for stage volume but for tone because of the impedance from the speakers wired in parallel. So 3 x 8 ohm parallel / 3 = ~ 2.7 ohms, and you power that mismatched upward at the 4 or 8 ohm tap on your power amp and you're going to get very nice, warm, slightly clipped tone at a reasonable volume (using a Twin, gain at 5, treble 8-10, mid 5-7, no bass, reverb to taste). I keep my guitar volume pot at less than 5. Very important to practice with your rig regularly to get the volume controlled. I can play in my garage and my camera picks up my breathing so it's really not that loud at all. Keep playing!
For example just to clear it up, if i was to run 3 e120's in parallel=2.7 ohms, I would use my 4 ohm tap on the power amp, to achieve what you explain above. Also I understand that you have a 2100, do you run it in mono or stereo?
Best, Nathan
 #160004  by Gr8fulCadi
 Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:25 pm
mgbills wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:26 pm
Here is the shameless plug of the night.

I'm sitting in my Whacknut Conservatory (spare bedgroom) playing nice & low. Just traded out my E120's a couple weeks ago for a pair of K's that I've had in a box. They needed the exercise. It really doesn't matter with a Maestro.

Yea. I acknowledge that it's not the cheapest route. But with a buffered guitar the rig sings at any volume. Of course it's got a wee bit of lagniappe loud, but a Waldo modded Twin is a different amp at any volume.

Lot's of great choices out there, but some of ya'all are not talking about a cheap route in this thread. A SF Twin chassis or Dual Showman aren't big money. I think I payed less than $500 for my '69-'70 head that went to Waldo.

Of all the choices I think an un-modded Twin is the least forgiving. I've got big love for Mesa & the Deluxe reverb route as well. But the Maestro is unparalleled, even if you're not doing the Jerry thang.
Agree with all the above. I got so lucky and found a beat up 74’ twin with a bashed up cabinet (that I fixed up) and the speakers were shot. The chassis was ka’leeen as can be. Got it for under $200 and sent her over to Waldo asap. It plays well at volume 2 or 7. All around versatile amp indeed.

I’m not moving it tho, with D120’s loaded as a combo amp it’s heavy. Currently not in a band so it’s fine as a combo, but if I were, I’d get the chassis in a head cab.

Also, After getting the Maestro, I’ve retired my MC250 to home stereo duty and my 3yr daughter thinks it’s so cool looking. Sounds good too.

Here’s a clip with the Maestro on like vol 2, Old strings and some flubs on this clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cOOeAT7-pY
 #160005  by MattMan
 Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:10 am
WokeUpDead wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:28 pm
Blacklodgebob wrote:
Do you have E120's in the twin combo? I wonder if the baffle is sturdy enough to support that weight. I could certainly get a cab and put the twin in a head at some point instead. I haven't been able to find any K120's so I may just pick up the E120s I found. Can the E120's be run in parrallel - just two of the them -and have the same effect your describing just using the twin power section without getting a solid state amp?
I have used the Es in my combo before I ripped out the Twin head and bought a separate speaker cabinet. Give it a shot. It'll be heavy but you can put wheels on the bottom and get a friend to help you move it. Ks are lighter and are the same tone more or less. You can find empty Twin heads on eBay if you want to separate. Regarding the impedance, a Twin is designed for the two 8 ohms in parallel because its ready for 4 ohm, but that's different than the impedance mismatch I was referring to where you can use a specific tap on the Poweramp.
 #160009  by Blacklodgebob
 Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:16 am
aiq wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:59 am
I run a mismatch with the Bassman.
Love me some steve kimock too - but dude you have got to be loud as shit running two vintage fenders at the same time, unless they are on like 2 - in which case they arent really cooking
 #160017  by WokeUpDead
 Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:24 pm
MattMan wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:49 am
MattMan wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:10 am
A Twin with some E or K120s is a perfectly workable amp at low volumes. No need to play loud.

Although the trick for good Jerry tone IMO is a preamp tapped Twin, an old school power amp (e.g., McIntosh, MosValve), and JBLs, the other main trick for me is to tilt back the speaker cab or combo so the sound dissipates towards your ears, and if at all possible use a monitor with your guitar prominent in your monitor. That way you keep the volume reasonable. A Twin at low volumes is a great tone. With a monitor you can get great feedback too. Use pedals as needed for overdrive or distortion. I've been working on tone and technique full time for a few years now and the trick for me is speaker placement, a monitor, light pick technique that is as soft as my finger picking, and again, good speaker placement so I can hear it. Finally, get a good ear in the audience to tell you what they're hearing. Most club sound engineers in my neck of the country are used to metal bands where the guitar is a stack cranked, so they need a little help with a musical softer volume band playing jam band music. Finally, I shared the stage with a guitarist who was using a Blues Junior and he wanted my Twin after. The power of the Twin can be for volume but use it for tone.
One other point that I haven't heard discussed much hear lately, but which Waldo reminded me--Jerry used 3 or 4 JBL Es or Ks not necessarily for stage volume but for tone because of the impedance from the speakers wired in parallel. So 3 x 8 ohm parallel / 3 = ~ 2.7 ohms, and you power that mismatched upward at the 4 or 8 ohm tap on your power amp and you're going to get very nice, warm, slightly clipped tone at a reasonable volume (using a Twin, gain at 5, treble 8-10, mid 5-7, no bass, reverb to taste). I keep my guitar volume pot at less than 5. Very important to practice with your rig regularly to get the volume controlled. I can play in my garage and my camera picks up my breathing so it's really not that loud at all. Keep playing!
Why do you keep your guitar volume knob so low? Do you find that turning up your amp but turning down your guitar works better for you than turning down your amp and turning down your guitar for tone? Seems like you could never turn your guitar signal all the way up or you'd be killing people. How does that work with your effects? I guess you use an obel where that doesn't matter?
 #160019  by hippieguy1954
 Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:59 pm
With OBEL and Wald Electronics buffer in any one of my guitars, I run my Maestro Reverb head into a McIntosh Mc 2100. Two 8 ohm K 120's wired in parallel for 4 ohms connected to the bridged 16 ohm tap for 200 watts on the Mc 2100. I love it, but by no means is this NOT VERY loud. It is very loud even with the guitar volume only half way up.
You most certainly can control it with the guitar volume pot and your pick attack to an extent.
 #160021  by MattMan
 Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:33 pm
WokeUpDead wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:24 pm
Why do you keep your guitar volume knob so low? Do you find that turning up your amp but turning down your guitar works better for you than turning down your amp and turning down your guitar for tone? Seems like you could never turn your guitar signal all the way up or you'd be killing people. How does that work with your effects? I guess you use an obel where that doesn't matter?
Yup , I use the OBEL so the effects are always getting full ouput from the buffered pups. I just like the tone and control I get with the preamp tapped Twin at gain 5 and the ~100-watt vintage solid state power amp at ~11:00. I can turn up my guitar only at the very end of songs to get some tasty feedback. It really does take a lot of practice to get the picking style down so that you're not playing too heavy.
 #160073  by frankenstein260
 Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:05 pm
MattMan wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:33 pm
WokeUpDead wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:24 pm
Why do you keep your guitar volume knob so low? Do you find that turning up your amp but turning down your guitar works better for you than turning down your amp and turning down your guitar for tone? Seems like you could never turn your guitar signal all the way up or you'd be killing people. How does that work with your effects? I guess you use an obel where that doesn't matter?
Yup , I use the OBEL so the effects are always getting full ouput from the buffered pups. I just like the tone and control I get with the preamp tapped Twin at gain 5 and the ~100-watt vintage solid state power amp at ~11:00. I can turn up my guitar only at the very end of songs to get some tasty feedback. It really does take a lot of practice to get the picking style down so that you're not playing too heavy.
Are you running the Maestro at 5?
 #160085  by MattMan
 Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:42 pm
Yup: Gain of the Maestro Twin is set 5; gain of the 100 watt power amp is basically set at 4. Just amazing what the Maestro mod does. I accidentally had the Brightness switch up (Maestro off) from moving the head, and I kept looking at my guitar because I thought I was on bridge pup. Finally put the switch down, activated the Maestro circuit, and that beautiful warm, slightly clipped, Jerry tone came ringing out from my Coscia Bella. Hard to leave rehearsal!
 #160122  by Arafel
 Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:49 am
Well, it's not really a "Jerry" style amp, but I love my little Swart Atomic Space Tone Jr. It can be surprisingly loud for a small amp, and easily keeps up with a drummer. And it's only 5 watts!