Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #159673  by mikelawson
 Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:54 am
I am happily using an orange vintage d120 in my Boogie right now, but have a 2-12 cab being made here in Nashville for me. I am thinking about using the Webers, which he says are identical in tone. Your opinions, who have used them? Also, anyone selling an SMS Classic, get in touch.
 #159674  by pula58
 Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:58 am
Are you referring to the Weber California's, or Weber Neomags?

Nothing sounds exactly like a JBL except a JBL. I have tried a lot of new speakers, looking for that sound, but have not found it.
That being said, the Weber's are not bad, but I did not end up loving them or keeping them. Your opinion may vary.
Best of luck!
 #159676  by milobender
 Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:11 pm
I have both 12" neomags and d120s... the neomags are fine, but they don't sound like the d120s. They both have their own personalities, and I'd say 100%, go the JBLs for the Garcia sound. :smile: :smile: :smile:
 #159680  by Searing75
 Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:06 pm
The Weber California 12’s sounds nothing like the JBL K120 in my experience. I would not recommend them at all.
 #159682  by mikelawson
 Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:30 pm
California's was what I was talking about. Ted claims they sound like D120s, which I own and am used to, but crap they are getting stupid expensive now. I literally begged the VP of JBL last NAMM to get his head on straight and reissue these, but it was all you'd expect from talking to an empty suit.
 #159684  by gratefulredhead
 Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:10 am
mikelawson wrote:California's was what I was talking about. Ted claims they sound like D120s, which I own and am used to, but crap they are getting stupid expensive now. I literally begged the VP of JBL last NAMM to get his head on straight and reissue these, but it was all you'd expect from talking to an empty suit.
I have a JBL k120, original no recone, and a Weber Cali alnico 12 in my cab. I switch back and forth between the two all the time. While I prefer the JBL it is not by a huge margin. I love the Alnico Cali. I have hi quality recordings of both using the same guitar, same rig and settings if you want to compare them.

Here's a clip using the Cali. ... 9636904085

Here's the one with the JBL. In both clips I'm using the same rig (Garcia-style modded 65 TRRI head, preamp out to Mosvalve 962 amp) with the exact same settings and using the middle pup split on my guitar. No effects on in the chain.

The high end is sweeter and more forward in the JBL, but the Weber is certainly in the zone to my ears. My point is, if the JBL is too hard to find for your budget, the Cali is a perfectly respectable substitute. I do prefer the JBL though.

Searing75, I know you disagree completely, but I guess this diversity of opinion is what makes us a strong group!

 #159685  by Searing75
 Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:11 am
I have only ever used the ceramic California 12 from Weber, so I cannot comment on the alnico. Obviously the K120 is alnico, and perhaps I shouldn’t compare it to a ceramic speaker in the first place? So, in the end, I do not like the ceramic Weber California, (dig the ceramic Chicago Weber offering for other tones though) but do wonder about the alnico. Actually, I really don’t feel the need to wonder as I have, and love, my K120! Okay, I’ve had too much coffee, and need to poop.
 #159695  by Jon S.
 Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:27 am
I'm wondering whether the difference in how many people respond to the Weber NeoMags have to do with true underlying differences between the NeoMags and JBL D-series speakers, underlying differences between individual JBL D speakers (after decades of use - and misuse! - you would expect them to longer no all sound exactly the same even before factoring in recones and the like), differences in our individual hearing (different degrees of high end hearing loss over time, etc.), other causes, or idiosyncratic combinations of the above.

I can say that my tech (Pete Cage,, who has had probably hundreds of JBL D-series speakers cross his bench in his career) and I both felt, upon hearing my Weber NeoMags, that they are authentically (not identically - authentically) in the JBL D-series camp.

On the other hand, I used to own a Weber CA w/aluminum cap. I didn't find that to be nearly as close to my K and E as I find my NeoMags to my D.

As always, perhaps for the very reasons noted above, YMMV.

P.S. My first post using the new forum software - kudos to the Admins!
 #159711  by mikelawson
 Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:58 am
Thanks for the video links/sound clips. A lot of this is subjective, but it is nice to hear other people's opinions.

I have Alnico JBLs in my Twin. They sound great. However, that amp is way too much love for the majority of shows I can do in clubs with Hooteroll? because you just can't turn it up very loud. Great for festivals, though. :)

I tend to use a 5:25 Express Boogie with some mod tweaks and a vintage JBL orange D120 for most club dates. If I go with a 1-12 trucker-style cab, I may yank it and put it in there, and if I go with a 2-12, I may just buy one more orange one to match and put something else in the Boogie. If I go with a 3-12, I will officially have lost my mind.

I should have the SMS/MC50 racked up soon, once I get NAMM and some other travel behind me.
 #159721  by Erbacher
 Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:41 pm
Kind of off topic but it relates...I have a friend who is a prototype maker for a lot of companies...he designs and makes practically everything and has a team of guys he coordinates to get the job done...I went to him with a k110 bc it was easier to carry than a k120 and asked him to look at the speaker and tell me how much it would take to make the tooling and make a perfect copy of one of those speakers...$12,000 with no previous experience and only a speaker to go by to if there was a way to use this as a startup, we could get a kickstarter together and essentially create a speaker company from the ground up and have perfect brand new k120's...anyone interested? I wonder if there is a patent for the k120 and if it is still active? Clearly there are plenty of guitarists both in the GD community and outside of it who would love to have a brand new k120