[Jedstein]

I believe to set a Fender amp "flat" is T - 0, M - 7, B - 0. A T,B only (Bassman) has the internal mid set at 7.

I recently accquired a 68 Bassman with a couple of mods: 25 - 50 watt switch and a midrange control added. Also the output stage modded to blackface. I got to use it at a gig a few weeks back. Love it, going into a 1 x 12 pine closed back with Weber Cali 12 ceramic.cab set on the stage.

I set the mid at around 7, then T at 7 and bass at around 2.5. AO Jerryfied Firebird w/SS frets, titanium saddles.

Plenty bright and yet full.

Disclaimer: not chasing a pure Jerry tone, just "Jerryish".

A clip: disclaimer 2: the last time this group played was, we think, '76, no rehearsal, and not going for tribute just playing the tunes.

https://youtu.be/YRXWk-mzphs

Wait -- was this the first time you guys played in 40 years!!?? Holy shit man -- that's amazing! Sounds great. Sweet ax! Would love get a customized AO guitar like that -- but after buying all this other gear this year -- it's going to have to wait a bit . . . .

[aiq]

Thanks, it was a fun afternoon. We had played those tunes many times in the 70s.

[skajellafetty]

not much for this noob to add, but what kind of pick / thickness do you use? the adamas or other? & of course pick location = a lot of tone change

[Jedstein]

not much for this noob to add, but what kind of pick / thickness do you use? the adamas or other? & of course pick location = a lot of tone change

Been using the Adamas 2 mm. I love the attack. But -- you've kind of got me thinking about it -- that maybe it's adding to the brittleness? Another thing I'm noticing is that my tone definitely gets less bright into the evening. I would guess this is a combination of factors. My fingers are more warmed up. But maybe the tubes, after being on for an hour or so, start to warm up as well, making it sound less harsh?

[therobthompson]

Just from seeing a lot of Stu Allen I think I can A/B his sound from his normal rig (SMS Pre > MC250 > JBL's) versus straight through his Fender Twin Reverb. The straight Fender sound, which I've seen Stu use 2 or 3 times, is definitely much brighter, to the point of sometimes unpleasantly ice-picky. I feel that the McIntosh takes those powerful highs and makes them sweet and round compared to a Fender power stage. Hence I doubt that Jerry's canonical preamp settings are terribly useful unless also using a McIntosh. Personally I find pick material, tip shape and thickness to be a huge part of my tone. I like the Adamas graphite 2mm a lot and find them to be on the very round mellow end of the spectrum. The opposite, biting scratchy end of the spectrum would be like a thin Ultem pick.
Enough folks' $.02 and you'll have a dollar

[Brandon Bowlds]

I use a SF Twin with Jerry mods and JBLs. It is bright at home for sure but I love it live. I love how the rhythm guitar tones cut. I use a Jerry-esque setup in a funk band and I love it. I do work the tone control a lot but I feel I have a wider palette of tones than I did with my old rig.

[Jedstein]

Just from seeing a lot of Stu Allen I think I can A/B his sound from his normal rig (SMS Pre > MC250 > JBL's) versus straight through his Fender Twin Reverb. The straight Fender sound, which I've seen Stu use 2 or 3 times, is definitely much brighter, to the point of sometimes unpleasantly ice-picky. I feel that the McIntosh takes those powerful highs and makes them sweet and round compared to a Fender power stage. Hence I doubt that Jerry's canonical preamp settings are terribly useful unless also using a McIntosh. Personally I find pick material, tip shape and thickness to be a huge part of my tone. I like the Adamas graphite 2mm a lot and find them to be on the very round mellow end of the spectrum. The opposite, biting scratchy end of the spectrum would be like a thin Ultem pick.
Enough folks' $.02 and you'll have a dollar

Hey -- sorry for the late reply here. Yeah -- a McIntosh seems like an inevitable acquisition. But for the time being, I think I'm going to stick with my current set-up, which is already pretty damn good. I jumped into the rabbit hole pretty aggressively, dropped a shitload on new gear (with zero regrets), and think I probably should live with my rig for a while before any more upgrades. I've also heard folks say they think the McIntosh is overkill for smaller type venues -- although I'm sure I'll want to get one at some point . . . .

I use the Adamas 2mm as well -- haven't played another pic since I tried it!

Since I made this original post, I feel like I'm making a ton of progress on my tone -- mainly due to bringing the action way up. I think the strings were actually buzzing a little bit before, contributing to a bright and brittle tone. As many have noted, it's really not much harder to play with the action higher, and it's made all the difference in tone. Also paying more attention to my attack and picking technique, which is of course, a work in progress . . . .

I welcome everyone's 2 cents! I have a long way to go -- as I'm constantly hearing guys (who post here), who play at a whole other level, with a way more refined technique and tone. But I'm having a blast playing this music, and geeking out on how to optimize my Jerry tone, and I know I'll continue to get better. Thanks!

[Jedstein]

I use a SF Twin with Jerry mods and JBLs. It is bright at home for sure but I love it live. I love how the rhythm guitar tones cut. I use a Jerry-esque setup in a funk band and I love it. I do work the tone control a lot but I feel I have a wider palette of tones than I did with my old rig.

That's really interesting. Are you using a Jerry style guitar in addition to the Twin? I guess is shouldn't be that that shocking, considering that Jer was pretty funky at times, and a good clean tone is what you typically want for funk. Would love to hear some of that!

[SarnoMusicSolutions]

Q: What buffer is in the AO guitar?


And, the 2mm Adamas pick is a requirement for sure. I'd be curious to know what was going on inside the Twin, what cap's and mods he's using. I find that with a Jerry setup and tone setting (definitely more mids than zero!!) it really comes down to the pick technique. Pick too hard and it's a gnarly ice-pick with a very dull note that rings after it. But a light nudging of the strings gives a jazzy warmth with a sweet sparkle from the grit in the graphite of the pick. Even with a Mac I've found that I do need to roll my guitar tone back a hair to balance out the glassy top end a bit. But when it comes to the ice-pick, that largely relates to the pick attack spike or transient, and again much of that comes back to the right hand skill, takes many years to get a handle on it. And when sitting down with a guitar, it can take an hour to even get THAT tone to come from your hand and the strings. The light and accurate touch is everything. The loud, clean rig is ruthlessly unforgiving - a brutally honest presentation of exactly what your pick is doing. It all comes back to that once we've got a good rig set up.

Here's an anecdote from my buddy who hung with the Dead's catering chef on tour of '89. My friend had an all access pass and went out into the venue, some outdoor midwest amphitheater. My friend is an excellent guitarist, so he had a good mind for this experience. He was out sitting in the seats of the empty venue watching various things get sound-checked. Then the stage emptied and Jerry came out for his personal 45 minutes. My buddy was freaking out that it was just him and Jerry and then some crew running around. He said Jerry took his time warming up and getting his tone. Jerry started with his reverb off or very low. He would noodle and run scales, fiddle with volume levels, etc. For the first 15 minutes he said Jerry sounded horrible, no tone, no fluidity, pretty rough. Then Jerry found his stride, got faster, smoother, more warm, and the tone began to sound more like him. Then Jer would start playing with fx, bringing up his reverb, turning up the amp, working thru the pedal fx and adjusting them, going thru all the combinations. By 30 minutes it was really getting good and by the end of the 45 minute private Jerry concert, he said it was amazing Jerry, just awesome.

The point here is that even Jerry can't just plug in with this kind of setup and have great tone. My buddy's observation was that it was 90% warming up and picking better, and 10% rig and effects tweaking.

And we should all remember what Jerry said about how he used to warm up way back in the '60s - how he'd plug in and crank the amp and guitar and play his scales as quietly and EVENLY as he could. Once he got every note even, the same loudness, then he'd go to the next round, one click louder - once he got all the notes even at that level he'd go to the next louder step, on and on until he was shredding loud and ripping. Jerry was a MASTER of the pick dynamics, he had astronomically underrated talent with playing clean and controlling the loudness of every single pick attack - an astonishingly amazing master of this particular skill. His rig evolved along with that skill. So it's not surprising that so many of us struggle to come close to sounding like Jerry, even when all the gear is right or plenty close enough. Jerry was noted for saying that he knew he could blow his speakers simply by picking too hard. He had that much control and awareness. He never ceases to amaze me - frickin Jerry!!!

B

[mkaufman]

The same can be said about Bobby. A light touch goes a long way to achieving his tone. Sometimes it takes me quite some time to remember.

ace

[mgbills]

That is bloody brilliant stuff Brad & others. I can't say how many nightly practices I've seen that phenomena without being able to put words to it. I simply can't pick up my Jerry rig and be pleased in a short practice session.

I switch back & forth with my electric rig and my acoustic guitars. For me I need to keep my left thumb in shape, as I dislocated it many years ago. The acoustic helps keep my hand strength up.

Then I pick up my electrics and flip on the Jerry rigs and "AAAAAACK." WTF!

1/2 an our later I still suck, but at least it's personally more appealing. I find the Maestro/Twin a bit more forgiving with all that whumpage coming through the preamp. But it's loud in the house & the cats yowl...even with the Mc down.

Nice re-hashing here. New thingy's have come to light.

Peace
M

[hippieguy1954]

Excellent synopses, Brad! That is exactly what I do and I'm sure others do too. The rig almost seems out of control when first turned on and plugged into. Takes me a good half hour to acclimate and get everything just right. Then another half hour to warm up.

[Jedstein]

Q: What buffer is in the AO guitar? --


And, the 2mm Adamas pick is a requirement for sure. I'd be curious to know what was going on inside the Twin, what cap's and mods he's using. I find that with a Jerry setup and tone setting (definitely more mids than zero!!) it really comes down to the pick technique. Pick too hard and it's a gnarly ice-pick with a very dull note that rings after it. But a light nudging of the strings gives a jazzy warmth with a sweet sparkle from the grit in the graphite of the pick. Even with a Mac I've found that I do need to roll my guitar tone back a hair to balance out the glassy top end a bit. But when it comes to the ice-pick, that largely relates to the pick attack spike or transient, and again much of that comes back to the right hand skill, takes many years to get a handle on it. And when sitting down with a guitar, it can take an hour to even get THAT tone to come from your hand and the strings. The light and accurate touch is everything. The loud, clean rig is ruthlessly unforgiving - a brutally honest presentation of exactly what your pick is doing. It all comes back to that once we've got a good rig set up.

Here's an anecdote from my buddy who hung with the Dead's catering chef on tour of '89. My friend had an all access pass and went out into the venue, some outdoor midwest amphitheater. My friend is an excellent guitarist, so he had a good mind for this experience. He was out sitting in the seats of the empty venue watching various things get sound-checked. Then the stage emptied and Jerry came out for his personal 45 minutes. My buddy was freaking out that it was just him and Jerry and then some crew running around. He said Jerry took his time warming up and getting his tone. Jerry started with his reverb off or very low. He would noodle and run scales, fiddle with volume levels, etc. For the first 15 minutes he said Jerry sounded horrible, no tone, no fluidity, pretty rough. Then Jerry found his stride, got faster, smoother, more warm, and the tone began to sound more like him. Then Jer would start playing with fx, bringing up his reverb, turning up the amp, working thru the pedal fx and adjusting them, going thru all the combinations. By 30 minutes it was really getting good and by the end of the 45 minute private Jerry concert, he said it was amazing Jerry, just awesome.

The point here is that even Jerry can't just plug in with this kind of setup and have great tone. My buddy's observation was that it was 90% warming up and picking better, and 10% rig and effects tweaking.

And we should all remember what Jerry said about how he used to warm up way back in the '60s - how he'd plug in and crank the amp and guitar and play his scales as quietly and EVENLY as he could. Once he got every note even, the same loudness, then he'd go to the next round, one click louder - once he got all the notes even at that level he'd go to the next louder step, on and on until he was shredding loud and ripping. Jerry was a MASTER of the pick dynamics, he had astronomically underrated talent with playing clean and controlling the loudness of every single pick attack - an astonishingly amazing master of this particular skill. His rig evolved along with that skill. So it's not surprising that so many of us struggle to come close to sounding like Jerry, even when all the gear is right or plenty close enough. Jerry was noted for saying that he knew he could blow his speakers simply by picking too hard. He had that much control and awareness. He never ceases to amaze me - frickin Jerry!!!

B

Awesome story, Brad, and thanks for the ice pick advice. I had read a couple posts you made over the years talking about Jerry's pic dynamics, so it's something I certainly try to keep in mind. And yeah -- it really kind throws a wrench into the whole tone quest, when you realize, shit, I don't have Jerry's deft hands!

Andrew installed Waldo's TPC-1 Buffer in my guitar, and modded it to Tiger.

On the ice pick front, I think I really have made a ton of progress, after raising the action, which I think was the number one issue I was having. Or maybe after all this practice, my right hand technique is improving? One would hope so at least . . . . Also -- I felt pretty silly for having the mids on zero! No clue where I got that idea from. Boosting the mids has certainly warmed things up. I wish I had a decent recent clip, but here's a couple short clips of a gig I played, literally, the day after I got my guitar back from Andrew. The action was low, and damn mids were probably on zero, but it didn't seem to affect my tone too badly on the first clip (Eyes), perhaps, in part, because I was using the warm neck pickup. The ice pick always seems to be the worst in the traditional split middle pickup position, which is where I know Jer was 90% of the time. The second clip features my earthdrive maxed, which again, won't reflect on the ice pick problem, but since I'm responding to Brad's post, I had to throw it in there, because I freakin love the way it sounds (as you can see from the silly jumping). Now that my action is up and the mids aren't on zero, it sounds way better . . . so I'll look forward to posting an updated video soon. Please pardon the amateurish playing -- it's a work in progress . . . .

https://www.facebook.com/stacey.calhoon ... 172719274/

https://www.facebook.com/paulina.reilly ... 379626850/


Thanks again for the advice and cool story!

[tdcrjeff]

because I freakin love the way it sounds (as you can see from the silly jumping).

You'll have to keep working on that part of your Jerry technique.

[Jedstein]

You'll have to keep working on that part of your Jerry technique.

Classic!