Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #35394  by Pete B.
 Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:45 am
Billbbill wrote:
At the end of part 1 you cite the scale. Seems light G dorian (F Ionian?) if I'm hearing it right. Can you elaborate on what's going on scale wise?
Uhhh.... I was hoping no one would ask!
Yeah, I too could swear it is G dorian. I think that works because this lick occurs over the Cmin segment of the chord progression.
In the key of F, it is basically Re to Re (using the Do Re Mi thing). I need to check again tonight as I don't have a guit in hand.
That lick slides up to the first note, and also uses the bV hammer-on, which Jer uses a fair amount in general.

 #35401  by strumminsix
 Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:59 am
Pete B. wrote:
strumminsix wrote:
Pete B. wrote:
Strummin', where do you think the Dm should be? I'll check it out.
Ed has it on the main page:
Code: Select all
Fm              Cm                          Fm              Fm Eb Dm-
Paradise Waits, on the crest of a wave, her angels in flame.
Fm               Cm                            Fm              Fm Eb Fm

I looked at the tab. He is calling it a D minor diminished (Dmin-).
He prefaces the picture of the chord with the statement "** Play this like a Bb, just don't hit the high string."
I called it a Bb, or Bb7, because I want "Help On The Way" to be thought of as an easy, three chord "minor blues" song (not much different than say "The Thrill Is Gone".
I will try his chord tonight (don't have a guitar at hand).

So FWIW, most all of the licks/chords I choose to play are in the positions that work/sound best to me (I often wonder why Jerry or Bobby play certain things in certain positions, because it seems easier to play or sounds better to me in a different position).
The Guitar Player Tabs and JDarks show some of them in different positions, and although everyone will probably settle on a fave position, I think it is good to be able to play alot of this stuff out of different positions as a matter of general fluency (you could drill the common licks out of each CAGED position, for example).
Very cool and thanks for helping me understand your approach!

It's a great vid I just didn't understand what you were driving at!

I've been playing a Dm there forever and it sounded right against your vid when I was at home hence my query.

Very much agree about positions and the player. Being a Bobby I decide on shapes based on:
1. how many notes are necessary
2. chord voicing in the C or G shaped
3. the next chord change and whether it is covert or overt:
-- covert = E to C#m to F#m all off the 4th fret
-- overt = E to C#m to F#m off the 7th, 9th, 4th respectively

 #35502  by amyjared
 Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:19 am
Wow! I just got to lookin' at these and I'm totally impressed! Nice job!
As someone who learns well from vids, I really appreciate it.
Keep up the great work!
You say, during the beginning of Help, about the "standard" lick. Is this the one from this website or from jdarks or a composite? Is there tab of it? I've always wanted to tackle this song, and now seems about the right time! Thanks!

 #35547  by Pete B.
 Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:54 pm
amyjared wrote: You say, during the beginning of Help, about the "standard" lick. Is this the one from this website or from jdarks or a composite? Is there tab of it? I've always wanted to tackle this song, and now seems about the right time! Thanks!
AmyJared, I think of "the standard lick" as that lick that Jerry plays right after the line "Paradise Waits...".

I think you can get it from Ed Bicks video/tab, or Jdarks, or the Dec 2005 Guitar Player tab.

You could also check out View from The Vault II. The second set opens with a Help/Slip, with a fair amount of good fretboard shots.
Jerry actually starts the song with a standard Fm chord at the 1st fret.
I have listened to a ton of them on Archive, but I still really love the overall "sound" of the studio version.

 #35552  by amyjared
 Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:22 pm
Peteb, that's the lick I was thinking of, but you play it in a different position than most of the others, so I was curious if there was tab. I even checked the GP Mag, since I did get that one when I saw it, but again, it's all played off the Fm on the 8th fret, so the lick is there, instead of where you play it. Again, awfully nice work!

 #35568  by Pete B.
 Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:59 pm
AJ, It sounded too "thud-ee" to me in the 8th fret position. I like to play the chords out of the 1st fret Fm position and 3rd fret Cm. The lick, in that position, sounds better to me, and is easier to play for me.
It is short enough for me to tab (I have a like/hate relationship with "Tab" :shock: ...I do like RC Cola, however! :-) ).

I'll try it tonight or tomorrow.

 #35575  by Billbbill
 Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:12 am
fwiw it appears jg played it here

leading into paradise waits and continuing the fm

I think he'd slide the 3/6 w/ his middle finger and barre the 2 5's w/ his index finger

(/) Slide Up (\) Slide Down (h) Hammer On (p) Pull Off (b) Bend (r) Release (v) Vibrato


Then this into the Cm

same positioning

(/) Slide Up (\) Slide Down (h) Hammer On (p) Pull Off (b) Bend (r) Release (v) Vibrato


I'm not sure if this (8) is played but I put it in there anyway

This (8) is an 8 in parentheses. Evidently the program thinks it's cool.

 #35582  by ebick
 Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:54 am
Pete B. wrote:I have a like/hate relationship with "Tab"
Have you tried using the Tab Creator that Gregg built? It definately simplifies the process.

 #35594  by Pete B.
 Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:31 am
I really enjoyed this read from Dec 2005 Guitar Player. I tried to find the link to the tab that goes with this article, but i haven't found it yet.

"Diminished arpeggios? Variable meter? Multiple key changes? If you associate these tactics with such fusion fiends and prog pioneers as Chick Corea and King Crimson—and not with the psychedelic riffage of Jerry Garcia—then you haven’t heard the Grateful Dead’s “Help on the Way/Slipknot!” (from 1975’s Blues for Allah). The song’s intricate instrumental section, transcribed below, is not only a lesson in the compositional technique of modulation via diminished passing harmony, it’s also a melodic thrill ride—a set of roller-coaster riffs that will get your adrenaline pumping, whether you’re a Deadhead or a shred head.

Like most great adventures, what’s enthralling about this passage is not where it goes, but how it gets there. Just as a trip from Florida to California is more exciting on the Space Shuttle than on a Greyhound bus, Garcia leads his band from F minor to A minor not by simply dragging everything up four frets, but by launching a harmonic detour to outer space and back. The funky Fm strums that open the interlude (at 3:28) set up the general groove, and are answered by an identifiable single-note theme (bar 2, beats one through three) you may recognize from the intro and other sections of the song.

Here, Garcia’s guitar suddenly initiates liftoff into new tonalities. On the thrust of fifth-position F# diminished arpeggios (bar 3), Garcia makes a smooth modulation to G minor, where a new incarnation of bar 2’s single-note hook helps our ears adjust to the fresh key (bar 4). Next, in bar 5—this time gaining lift from seventh-position G# diminished maneuvers—Garcia throttles further into the heavens, and it’s on the gentle wings of cascading minor-7th arpeggios (bars 6 and 7) that he finally glides back to Earth, landing gracefully on the terra firma of A minor. Once again, the song’s main hook helps establish the new key (bar 9).

Played at tempo, this wild journey across three tonalities and most of the fretboard takes a mere 30 seconds. Wow—what a short, strange trip that was."

I found this, which if you take it from the second bar, is the "SlipKnot", and the 3rd bar is the decending part. I simplifyied it by calling it Em>D>C>Bm>Am. They call it by the relative minors, Em>Bm>Am>Bm>Am. fwiw, This tab is an example of why I try to simplify things.
I've worked with tab books that take one song, and show it in beginner>intermediate>advanced versions.
In my vids, in general, I am trying to show easy ways to play things that seemed hard to me.
Yes, leaving out a note here and there on the ascending arppegios, for example, creates a stepping stone version meant to get us from unplayable, to very playable.
Regarding the 3rd bar... I prefer to play right out of the chord shapes. Same notes though.


 #35622  by DenverEd
 Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:24 pm if you would just tab it out, it would be just exactly perfect.


 #35637  by Pete B.
 Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:43 pm
Here is that basic lick in the position I play it:




(You're right, that Tab creater works extremely easy! :lol:)
 #69270  by Lunchbox16
 Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:09 am
Has anyone done, or could anyone do a video explaining what Phil is doing in this song? I know some parts, but others I'm less clear on, especially what he's doing at the beginning of the song and during the "Whip."