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 #139976  by schmidtz
 Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:39 pm
Jerry plays this little arpeggio/scale ALL THE TIME and I know that since you guys are more knowledgeable than I am, you will know what it's called/based on. You can hear it in the following places:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSjoAtPgUc4&t=3m40s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8sAvm7Fsi0&t=0m31s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOyIKSHAVko&t=11m21s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLqVTi1XnzA&t=4m16s

I know I'll find a dozen more instances this weekend, but for now; can anyone shed some light on this progression?
 #139985  by gpilcher2001
 Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:39 am
Not to good with the theory stuff bit it seems to me to be some sort of diminished run. Think liz reed. I've been messing around with that lately and the shift from the intro theme to the next phrasing passage is a diminished scale. Sounds similar to my ears. Greg...
 #139986  by Lephty
 Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:08 am
Yes...very cool lick. I mostly know it from King Solomon's Marbles, but you do hear Jerry squeeze it in elsewhere. I think of it as outlining a 9th chord by using neighbor tones--it starts by playing the minor third and then going up a half step to the major 3rd, and then targets the rest of the notes of the chord by playing the note a whole step above it, then a half step below it, and finally landing on the chord tone. If it's an A9, as in King Solomon's, it looks like this (the A9 chord is shown at the end):

E |-------|-------------------------14-11-12-------|--12---||
B |-------|---------------14-11-12-----------------|--12---||
G |-------|-----14-11-12---------------------------|--12---||
D |--10--|--11--------------------------------------|--11---||
A |-------|------------------------------------------|--12---||
E |-------|------------------------------------------|-------||
 #139987  by schmidtz
 Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:28 am
Lephty wrote:[...]think of it as outlining a 9th chord by using neighbor tones--it starts by playing the minor third and then going up a half step to the major 3rd, and then targets the rest of the notes of the chord by playing the note a whole step above it, then a half step below it, and finally landing on the chord tone.
Exactly what I was looking for! :hail:
 #139988  by tatittle
 Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:27 pm
tHIS IS a classic Be-Bop technique I believe...to wander around/outline and lead into the notes of a chord/scale, particularly a chord larger than a triad. Thanks for the question and answer, I have to try this more consciously. Its funny how when I finally find out what someone is doing it ends up being far simpler than what I was attempting to imagine :lol:
 #139989  by Pete B.
 Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:54 am
I exchange some casual Pedal Steel lessons for Guitar lessons with a local Jazz aficionado who was a former Deadhead.
Christopher Woitach - http://www.affmusic.com/bio.htm
Anyway... He was showing me that the "2 above, 1 below" thing that is being discussed here is a typical Jazz lick/method of turning an arpeggio into a single note solo.
It varies a little if the chord is major or minor, but there are tons of uses, and King Solomon’s Marbles is probably the most blatant example of taking a known Jazz lick right out of the playbook.
This lick can also be heard on alot a Sugar Mags and Miss Halfsteps, among others (works great out of A or Am barre chords at 5th fret). China Cats and Cumberlands also come to mind.
You can slip it in anywhere you are working an arpeggio into your solo... Touch Of Grey also comes to mind.
Another related Jazz/Be-bop lick-trick (that Jerry does not do that much) is you play a short be-bop lick, then repeat the lick one fret up, then play it again in the original position. You hear that alot on Jazz/Be-bop solos, too.
 #139991  by Lephty
 Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:06 am
Something interesting to add to the discussion is that a lot of the time, you can use a pattern like this (whole step above > half step below > chord tone) and it doesn't even really matter if the notes are the "right" notes in terms of the scale/mode/key you're playing in. The pattern itself sounds strong enough that it can have "wrong" notes in it, but it will still work.
 #140041  by jlg327
 Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:35 pm
I believe that this technique is also addressed in this clinic video on YouTube. No affiliation, just stumbled across it a few months ago and thought it was interesting and useful. Plus the instructor uses a well-known melody ("When the Saints Go Marching In"), which allows you to better appreciate the effect of the embellishment(s).

For the impatient, the more complex embellishment techniques come in around the 8:30 mark of the video.

 #150814  by fep
 Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:54 pm
Isn't there a distinction between enclosures and approach tones? In the OP, the first note being an approach tone and the rest being enclosures?